Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 0:05

Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for personal values when dealing with each other and even within ourselves. Where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries and finding belonging. My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are your people. This is why values still hold value. This is Transacting Value. Welcome to Transacting Value. First, as a discretionary warning, this conversation will talk about drug use and does contain some explicit language. If you or someone you know is mismanaging stress to the point of suicide or ideations, call or text the free 24-7 Suicide in Crisis Lifeline 988. Go online to SAMHSAgov or text the word home to 741-741 for free to reach a trained crisis counselor 24-7 through the confidential and global not-for-profit organization Crisis Text Line.

Samantha Lander: 1:09

I think how you handle the hard stuff says a lot about a character and it builds your character. And the scary part is, once life goes back to normal, how easy it is to forget.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 1:22

What do you do to rebuild when federal jail time, drug involvement and addiction are part of who you have grown out of? How do we continue looking for hope and purpose when we already feel like we've hit bottom? Our next contributor talks about how we are in control of our choices, both to get into trouble and to rebuild after a while. She's a functional diagnostic nutritionist with firsthand experience in addiction recovery and also parenting as a single mom. Among many certifications, she got her National Association of Sports Medicine certification as a personal trainer and founded her own business in the process. Samantha Lander, Today we're talking our January core values of self-discipline, self-improvement and tenacity. Folks, if you're new to the podcast, welcome, and if you're a continuing listener, welcome back Without further ado. I'm Porter, I'm your host and this is Transacting Value. Sam, what's going on? How you doing?

Samantha Lander: 2:10

I'm good, how are you?

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 2:11

I'm doing well. Do you mind if I call you Sam? You cool with that?

Samantha Lander: 2:14

Everybody ends up calling me Sam.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 2:16

Easy.

Samantha Lander: 2:16

It's the other day, someone's like, so is it Samantha or Sam? I'm like it doesn't matter, you'll end up calling me Sam. I think I have some male vibes.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 2:24

Well, maybe, but I think one syllable names are always easier to roll with anyways. So, yeah, so good. But so for the sake of I guess you could say, introductions, and especially since we're not recording any video, anybody listening to our conversation may not be familiar with who you are, your story, your background. So let's just start for a couple minutes here in the beginning. Who are you? Where are you from? You know what sort of things are shaping your perspective on life.

Samantha Lander: 2:48

I feel asking that it's so much and was like that's the biggest question ever. I am from St Louis, Missouri, originally. I ended up. I went to a university in Michigan. I graduated, I moved to LA. I lived there for a period of time. I'm in recovery. I am a functional diagnostic nutritionist, so I've been in the health and wellness industry for 23 years, I think. Oh. Yeah, I am a single mom. I had a lot of underlying health issues so I think that sort of shapes my practice today. So things like chronic stomach aches, chronic fatigue, hormone imbalances, mold. My latest is I'm doing a lot of mouth work on my mouth. What does that mean? So, like removing root canals and pulling yeah, there's a lot of doing cavitation. So if you Google biological dentistry, I suggest that everyone goes to a biological dentist and you will learn a lot about how, when you get a root canal, like at the end of it, there is a lot of bacteria at the bottom still that they can't really ever get out. Typically, within a year there'll be an infection. That happens and it can make cause someone to be very sick. And I was like you know, I do all the things and I kept thinking I had sinus infection. It was like taking it away, I couldn't get it. I literally, two years ago, could not get out of bed. It was like a sinus infection on steroids and nothing was helping. You know, I went through this whole thing but it turned out to be a lot of infections under root canals in my mouth and I did cavitations I've had. Yeah, it's just been a journey I'm still sort of going through it.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 4:26

Well, I mean, I hope it works out well for you. Obviously, in the end, that's the goal, right. But to get into all this stuff, you said, what did you say? 23 years of working in health and fitness? Why? Why health and fitness? Why not like accounting or something? Oh God, Well, it's an example, you know.

Samantha Lander: 4:42

I definitely want to be in that one. Well, no, I actually am pretty good with money. I have to say I am good with money, but I don't want to be an accountant. I was an athlete growing up, so I was a swimmer. I did synchronized swimming for seven years. I was a rower. I was rowing as a next level sport, if you ask me. It's insane, it's kind of a cult. But my junior varsity, or my varsity boat junior and senior year, we were number one ranked number one, nationally so, and I went to Michigan I was going to row, but I'm five, four and I'm not a division one second rower, just put it that way. So you know, I kind of have it ingrained. I've always just done sports and been like physically active. It's sort of one of those things my family luckily ingrained in me and it create a lot of structure, saved my life. I can't imagine if I didn't do it, skipping ahead. I ended up in prison due to my drug use pretty much, and when I got out I just didn't want to deal with applying for jobs. I didn't know what it would be like trying to get a job with a felon on my record and I worked out all during prison again and I decided that I was going to get certified, be a personal trainer. So I mean, it's just kind of what I always did and I loved working out so and I could run my own business and I didn't have to work for anybody. So I started my own business then.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 6:06

So I do like that entrepreneurship sometimes I'm passionate about and, frankly, learning as I grow, I guess. But when you're talking about not to dive too much into drug use, but when you're talking about drug use and then you're talking about all this physical activity and finding ways to create outlets for yourself, what similarity do you see between the two of those? Because my dad and other family members have been addicted to all sorts of different things I have over time and then now they've become manifested, soaring into more positive habits, at least for me, but it's still ultimately this sort of drive and, for me at least, need for maybe fulfillment or there's a something and whatever it is, fills that something Right. So have you seen that there's any sort of tie between those two as far as habits go?

Samantha Lander: 6:56

For sure. I think when you're using, I think you're trying to fill some sort of like emotional void or emotional like misunderstanding sometimes. I mean, being an addict is a disease, right? So there's that component of it. I 100% believe and know my heart that for me that is correct. But on top of it, for me a lot of it was self-medicating, numbing a lot of emotional trauma that I didn't realize had gone on. You know it's fear, insecurities. I do believe that too much of anything is probably a bad thing. So you could eat healthy to extreme where it is unhealthy, you know you could work out too much to where it's helping work. Same thing meditate, I mean I don't know if you can meditate too much, but not on that one. But you know, and so when I got sober, I remember I got addicted to exercise, for sure. I mean I worked out like crazy. But I was in prison, I had nothing to do and I know I had this fear that I would never sleep and I slept more than I ever slept in my entire life when I was in prison. But I definitely made that transition from drugs and what's working out compulsively. Now I'm really good about having a balance between everything. I am healthy, but I'm not overly healthy when it comes to, like my diet. I'm realistic about it. I don't over train my body physically can't do it, I just can't. Oh, you're not who you used to be, yeah, yeah, and I just I know the repercussions of it now from my work, so I know the impact it has on your cortisol and your hormones and your gut health and when you shouldn't work out that much, I know how detrimental like mass I was doing massive amounts of cardio is really what I was doing and that's your body really doesn't know the difference between good stress and bad. Stress is just 45 minutes of constant steady state stress versus like weightlifting where it's like very, it's like a little bit and then down and a little bit down. It's the same thing like hit intervals. It's way better way of training If you want to do cardio for me. I can't do a lot of cardio. I like start putting on weight. I get really fatigued. Same thing works. Having even like hot yoga. I go more than three times a week consistently just because it's so hot. Like my body can't sustain that regulation with that kind of heat. I love it. It's mentally amazing. For myself you know it's perfect, it's I can do it every day, but my body like can't withstand that and I think just because I, it's just life is stressful, at least for me, and I think once you are under like a severe, chronic state of stress. I think you slip back there a lot easier than if you were. It's like your first time. Yeah, like the relapse rate, I think is I for sure know that it's higher.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 9:46

Are you talking about relapse towards whatever an addiction?

Samantha Lander: 9:51

No, like we, sorry, relapsing like back to like. So let's say we run like a hormone panel and then during all panel on you and we look at your cortisol like a 24 hour snapshot of what your cortisol look like in a day. It should be like a bell curve, right? So most of my clients, they're all like my cortisol is so high that's why I'm got this bad my belly and I do it and they're literally like flat line. So they've gone from having a normal bell curve to really high bell curve where they're like super fighter flight, stressed out and then tanked. So when we run the lab and we get their cortisol production back up, I tell them you have to be careful, because they think that they can go back to the old behaviors where they can go run marathons and they can go do eight hours of cardio. You're a mom with a job. Like, why are you doing eight hours? Like, are you going to want to take athlete? I'm always like, what's the goal here? But they think that's what's going to reach them to the goals of them feeling better, losing weight, and it actually does the complete opposite. So I say that, like when you start, like let's say you get married and move all positive things. It's still super stressful, so they have to be able to be in tune with their body enough to know that like that could set them back, and you know what I mean. Just support your adrenal glands during that time, support your hormonal system during that time, Like all the foundational stuff, organic acids, all that.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 11:13

There's a lot of that. That happens in the military as well, obviously there's. There's moves, we call them basically permanent change of station, but wherever your base station is, and then you go to a different one for another couple of years, and then every so often for anybody new to the show. But that's how that works, or, sam, if you were unfamiliar, but anyway. So a lot of those types of things, right? And then you factor in injuries, you factor in stressors, you factor in age, and then you factor in a bunch of late 30s, 40 year old dudes primarily the guys, especially with a lot of these new 20 year old dudes coming through and you're like, well, if he's going to run an 18 minute three mile, I'm going to. Yeah, exactly, and just a bunch of gorillas, right? So there's a lot of that where, sorry, bro, you're not 25 anymore and, frankly, you don't need to prove that you could be 25 again, right, just, can you maintain this? And this is my theory, right? I'm a what we call it in the Marine Corps, especially a force fitness instructor, which is essentially just a fitness coach, but Marine Corps branded, right? So a lot of the times when I talk to some of these Marines as well, like you don't have to perform to that level. You got to perform to your level and show a lot of these junior guys. For example, how can you go 20 years and sustain sort of like you said undulating rhythmic levels of stress and manage that effectively? So you're not. You know, there's a sort of analogy. I guess you say for every year you're in the military, you age five years and so some of that I feel like that's my life right now. And some of that is true to a certain degree. I don't know about biological age and details, but you know, you see guys that get in in their twenties and guys that get out in their forties, and this isn't gender specific, but whatever people that get in their twenties, people that get in their forties, out in their forties, and you're like man, you've easily got to be in your mid fifties and he's like now I'm 42. And you're like, oh man, ok right, there's a lot of those people that get out, but sometimes it's pride. Well, I don't want to listen. Nobody's going to tell me what to do. I've been working out the same way for 15 years and now who are you to tell me otherwise?

Samantha Lander: 13:06

Yeah, I get clients in that want to train and they'll be like 54. And they'll be like oh yeah, I was like a college football player and I do your in college, exactly. Yeah, I think they can just like oh, I'm good, they like try to. I'm like yeah, ok.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 13:22

Yeah, yeah, I used to rep three 15. Yeah Well, that was a used to you, that's now you. All right, folks, stay tight. We'll be right back on Transacting Value. Have chronic health problems that only seem to be making your wallet lighter and not your stress levels. Ever heard of functional diagnostic nutrition? It has a focus on gut health, bodily function and holistic care for the entire you. It's more than just westernized medicine prescribing seemingly endless cycles of pills for symptoms that can encourage other medications for side effects, all with a hope for a better quality of life. Seefit PT is a functional diagnostic nutrition company that seeks to identify healing opportunities custom for each client. Seefit PT uses a health-building process that includes diet, rest, exercise supplements and stress reduction as a natural, holistic approach to yield the highest level of positive clinical outcomes. Develop a solid foundation and take ownership of your recovery. To complement your health protocols with effective measures that you can use to grow into a healthier you Increase your self-reliance, self-confidence and perspective with equal doses of humility and reassurance. Alongside your new functional diagnostic nutrition coach, Seefit PT. Learn more on Instagram and Facebook at SeeFit Living or online at SeeFitPT. com today. Yeah, I used to rep 315. Yeah, well, that was a used to you. That's not a now-you you.

Samantha Lander: 14:38

Yeah, oh, same thing. I used to be able to do so much in box. I don't even have the ego drive to battle someone on that. I'm like you're good. Yeah.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 14:49

Well, so let me ask you this then. This is a segment of the show called Developing Character. So, for anybody new, what we're talking about are essentially, sam, your personal values, and then we'll dive into how you sort of apply them practically throughout the rest of the conversation. But two questions, as in-depth or as vulnerable as you want to be. So you talked about just now how this sort of drive and passion to work with people but then to balance that with reality, essentially in some sort of defense or some sort of justification for training, and so I'm curious with this first question as you were growing up to whatever ages you want to tie that to what were some of the values that you were exposed to, or some of the values that you had?

Samantha Lander: 15:29

What's crazy is I don't remember a lot of my childhood. I've been in a lot of therapy this year and we try to go back. It's crazy. I don't remember a lot. I definitely have a good moral compass. My parents, the foundational stuff was all there growing up. Be polite, say thank you, be of service. I was of service a lot but I sort of got in trouble a lot, so that could be why that happened, but still, it still taught me something. I was very fortunate and slightly privileged that I got to go to camp every summer. But I mean it's like throwing you out in the wilderness and telling you to just survive and that minimal living and learning to just survive off the earth and be able to spend the night in the woods by myself and go into a cave, and just like the rawness of being in the earth with minimal shit. I ate out of a Sierra Cup for every summer, like 12 weeks. That's all I got. And that camp taught me more about my life and gave me life skills than I could have. I couldn't have gotten it anywhere else. It's just everything. We'd have meals where it'd be like a meager meal, or taught you about people who don't have food, just so many things, and I think that gave me the ability to survive a lot of the turmoil and ups and downs that have happened in my life and be able to be a chameleon with everything that you do. So you would think, oh my God, I'm going to prison. What am I going to do without all my things? It was so great, I was not great. I mean it's like I got six pairs of underwear, six outfits, that's it. That's it Not even that and you're fine with it. I got one spoon. Living like that really is a lot easier than having all the bullshit. And I'm able to like COVID. When people are like this is like prison, I'm like this is like the best thing in the world, I'm locked in my house for two months or whatever. Bring it on. It's just the attitude of gratitude, I guess you know yeah, there's a lot of that too.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 17:33

We have going. It's not necessarily that we realize it at the time, but especially when we go to boot camp, or even for the officers that go to the respective course, that there's same idea, like you get a standard issue and this is it and that's all you have. You're not bringing anything with you, and obviously all our heads get shaved and everybody's the same, and then you get yelled at for 13 weeks and you roll around in the dirt and a bunch of other stuff. But aside from that, there's a lot of similarities right when you just end up with nothing and it teaches you a lot about self-reliance and self-esteem and confidence and you're like, man, I don't know if I can do this, and then you get through it and there's something to be said for that degree of pride and that degree of accomplishment, I think.

Samantha Lander: 18:12

Anyways, Is how you approach it. When I found out that I was going to be going to prisons, like I could have started I mean, I got sober before all of it happened Like I could have gone back out and started using and dealt with it that way. And like. I think how you handle the hard stuff says a lot about a character and it builds your character. And the scary part is, once life goes back to normal, how easy it is to forget. And I think good people with a good moral compass you can lose your way so fast. You can just become so ungrateful so quickly and become that victim and you got to set reminders to remember what it's been like. I think that's why recently I've been doing a lot of service work and a lot of stuff with my recovery, because I relapsed at 13 years sober, and I relapsed after my son was born and it was bad. I mean bad for me. I don't know, I can't, but it just. You know, as a trainer, fitness coach, you can say no to gluten. I can say no to black sugar it's not a big deal to me. I can say no to a lot of things and have a lot of discipline, but with the drinking by the end I literally couldn't stop and like that and then having the program in my head. But I think that's given me an opportunity to be really grateful for my past and to like, take a step back and be like I really lost my way. I had an ego. I knew it all. I just was all over. I was not living the legacy that I hoped to live in my marriage, and it's not his fault, but it got lost somewhere. And yeah, I don't know. You know, I just lose it, I don't know.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 19:47

No, I totally get it. I totally get it. And when you brought up gratitude earlier, that ties me to my next question. Actually, aside from gratitude, I guess, what are some of your values now then?

Samantha Lander: 19:57

I'm a firm believer that I try. Now. I like pray for other people and I pray for my son and I don't. It's not like I want a million dollars. Why aren't you giving it to me? You know what I mean. I just please give me financial freedom or give me the ability to take care of my son and his home. You know what I mean. It's the words that you use and that's not what I was using before. It was like just so self-centered, self-seeking, and I practice humility. I try to do an inventory at the end of the day and you know, have I hurt anyone? Have I done anything that I know is like manipulative and vindictive? Do I need to apologize to anyone and make an immense legacy again is like huge. I always think about. Well, if I died tomorrow, people are going to have to tell my son about me, which just sounds morbid. But I want my son to like. I truly want him to know that I left like a stamp and something that I did. And I wasn't like dead beat for for all that I went through. I don't want to be like, oh yeah, my mom was a drug addict in prison. You know, I want to be like my mom was a drug addict in prison, but then after she got out, she went and she chaired meetings in another prison, she shared her story, she helped. Whatever my path is, you know, I think that that's powerful stuff right there. It keeps me sober. Really, it's not even so much about helping other people, it keeps me accountable.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 21:27

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Samantha Lander: 22:29

That's powerful stuff right there. It keeps me sober Really. It's not even so much about helping other people. It keeps me accountable.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 22:35

Well, that's sort of the thing. Some of the most, I guess, relatively altruistic goals start with sort of a selfish foundation. I enjoy helping other people because it makes me feel good. Okay, sure, but then there's two sides to every coin, so it's not necessarily that it's a bad thing. And then, talking about legacy, that's kind of an interesting point too. I can't remember on this show which conversation it was, but at some point in the past we had a conversation. What we came back to was not good or bad, but your reputation if it truly precedes you, then your reputation is what shows up before you get there. Your character is what stays behind after you leave, and I think a lot of that stuff is so easy to overlook. And trying to figure out ways to cope with stressors. You mentioned drinking. I smoked for a while and then dipped for probably about a decade, so tobacco is not a big deal necessarily.

Samantha Lander: 23:31

Yeah, that shit was hard to quit. It was and then I got out of prison. You couldn't smoke in prison. I got out and I started again.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 23:41

It's comfortable, though it's tied to the habit At least it was for me I felt like whatever I was doing that either caused stress or that alleviated stress, it just felt good and I was like, well, then it was a pair that worked well. And then eventually I ended up with health issues and lumps and bumps and issues and I was okay, hold on, if I keep doing this, I can't continue to do anything else. And for me, similar to what you just described, a lot of that started with my son when he was born, and it just didn't occur to me because I didn't care, it didn't matter, I was too short-sighted. But once your perspective shifts a little bit, things change, and so when we're talking about trying to find ways to cope or manage stress, you mentioned a lot of things that to me sound an awful lot like self-discipline working out, pushing through things when you're tired, managing whatever stressors apply, when maybe you just want to take a nap or do anything else. But I think what that also sounds an awful lot like is boundaries and understanding where you want yours to be and how you want to implement yours. And so what kind of strategies did you implement or how did you identify what you wanted your boundaries to be and what those blocking points were, so you didn't cross them again.

Samantha Lander: 24:52

I did a drug treatment program in prison and it's a lot of it's like just back to basics, like thinking, and it's like literally like first grade work in a way learning how to communicate, learning how to accept responsibility, learning how to be like rational about certain scenarios, like very like cognitive therapy. I mean the material in the program is unbelievable Just listening skills, thinking errors, like things that you think like have to you know, I have to, need to, must, like that's a thinking error, like basic stuff that I feel like I've got to relearn. When I was in prison and I got to, I mean they ingrain it. Some of the people in prison not all of them come from they don't have any moral values growing up, they come from broken homes. I had enough to be kind of self aware. It's hard. You're retraining adults on how to think, it's hard. So they ingrain it. And I remember just getting out and just being so in such a good place, so independent, so secure and so like outside myself, and kept going and I was good for a while and then I got into some toxic scenarios and it's like when you get in survival modes, whenever you spin out and you just, and when you have toxic people around you. So now, this year for sure, I'm learning how to say no to people that you know family and have boundaries with family, and it's interesting to see the reactions that happen. I don't even mess with toxic people. Someone hurts my feelings, I'll say it like and I'll be able to walk away. This is stuff that, like, I really couldn't do before. Like I, you know, I never wanted to upset anyone. I don't want to make anyone mad or hurt anyone, so I'll always take the blame and it'll fix the problem, kind of thing. But I'm also not like a pushover where I'm like I'm sorry, sorry. It's kind of like a weird thing. But I think today I have a lot of boundaries and I think key for me is the emotional part of it. I have all the self-care stuff. I do all the. I eat clean, I work out, I know when I need to rest, I try to boundaries for sure make a big difference.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 27:03

but you mentioned not wanting to let people down and I feel like things like that. I don't know what you call them principles or emotions or whatever but I feel like things like that you can't dismiss, you can't just erase and say, well I'm, I've gotten over that now because it's a character, well, maybe, maybe.

Samantha Lander: 27:24

Oh, you mean a character? Yeah, it's like. It's like taking like you suddenly aren't empathetic towards someone.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 27:28

Yeah, Exactly you to some degree, right.

Samantha Lander: 27:32

Well, yeah, I think I can be. I think I can say I'm sorry that it hurt. As long as I validate their feelings, I think is the key is to say like I respect that. You know, this is maybe how you feel or whatever it is, but I'm not okay with how that's impacting my life and this is how I feel about it. It doesn't mean that anyone's wrong or right necessarily. Yeah. And I'm able to walk away, I think, a little bit better from things. I think part of it was like, oh, it's not getting the last word in to win, but like I felt like I was never hurt. I think as a child I wasn't hurt a lot. So for me in my adulthood I want to get that last word in and I want to talk about it more because I don't feel like people hear me because of my childhood and a lot of people don't listen because they'll say something and then they'll do the same thing again. My marriage was that it was literally I would express a feeling and say something like literally wound my heart, like to core, and then that behavior would happen right away again.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 28:33

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Samantha Lander: 29:22

My marriage was that it was literally. I would express a feeling and say something that would literally wound my heart to the core and then that behavior would happen right away again. So it was a constant cycle of insanity and not being heard and validated, or it was insane. So I think that's where my regression started. But then I have my parents saying well, you can't get a divorce, you gotta work through it. Everybody has problems, everybody is this. You got all these voices and you just can't. You're not. I wasn't following my gut. Really Like your gut will tell you. Yeah, I mean, looking back, I'm like pfft.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 30:01

Are you in a place to be able to fix it? I'm an idiot.

Samantha Lander: 30:04

I can't blame my ex or anyone for anything. I'm so right there in front of my face.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 30:08

Yeah, I get that. I did a lot of the same thing, didn't really take the ownership and it just you know. Here it is. But for me I tend to be pretty frustrated and pretty angry. That's like my norm. And then I just develop self-control and I developed outlets to manage that I generally don't get.

Samantha Lander: 30:28

But what's the root cause? I don't know. Like why do you get angry like that? Is there something that you haven't? Where did you stuff emotions in your child? Probably you know what I mean, so it's just I would help when I work with people. It's what's the root cause of why you like snap or why you get angry, why you just go right there? Cause it's not you can control it. It's like taking a medication for it or whatever. You can control it, whatever you want. But like wouldn't you rather figure out why it's become this, then process those situations and those emotions? Cause it's usually something from your childhood that causes you to be that way, and that's what I'm learning. Is it all manifests into other things later in life? It's just crazy how volatile we are as children, like we take on the world. I am learning a lot with my kid and my therapy, but I think when I see someone who's super angry, like or just at what I need to think any emotional, you know inconsistencies that could be harmful to that person. Yeah. Unless they're like literally well, I could say diagnosed. But I think you got to find the root cause and I think that's the hardest part.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 31:31

Yeah, yeah Cause you don't know. A lot of that. I don't know if this necessarily applies I hadn't thought about it until this conversation but I think a lot of that for me. I just felt like I didn't have any control. I just felt weak and overpowered. And you know, you told what to do, told where to go, how to do it, and then I would find out everything that I thought I was accomplishing on my own was really orchestrated in this controlled environment and it wasn't actually my own doing. And so a lot of you know self doubt and defeatism in that process. Is this your childhood? Yeah, and I just didn't really feel like I had a hold on what was mine, and so I just I'm angry about it, so were your parents were your family very controlling. Yeah, I think. So looking back now to just even the playing field here, I think it was also out of ignorance on their part, cause they were young and so they just didn't know right, and this is also in the 80s and 90s when a lot of people didn't know. But going through that for me, I just became more angry and then eventually I'd develop more self control, and so now my go-to within a few sentences is frustration. Or my go-to within a few sentences is I just get angry and eventually I just, you know, fuck it, I'm going to walk away, because if I keep talking, I know this is going to get worse. And a lot of that I didn't realize until I got divorced, right, or until I went to anger therapy or until I worked through some of those things, and I didn't know it at the time. Like I said, I just sort of started thinking about this now while you were telling me these things. But a lot of that I don't know how my son is thinking through issues or what's the word, catalysts for his behavior, or even that he is he's nine years old, but whatever he's taking in as inputs I don't really think there's too much conscious thought of. I need to respond this way, except you know what's going to make people laugh or what's going to make me fit in, or what's going to make things more entertaining or more fun or more whatever, like a lot of other kids, especially nine year olds. Right, that's just the driver. However, I have seen and I talked to him on a video call most nights because we live long distance, but I talk to him and I see on video or while we're playing video games on the phone call, I hear him and some of the comments he makes or some of the ways he responds when things don't go his way or when, you know, maybe I hear his mom in the background telling him to do something and he's got to take a break, and he'll get an attitude when I ask him hey, what'd she say? Is she talking to you? Pause the game, go play, go clean up, go do whatever she's telling you to do, and then he'll come back and won't want to talk or help out, because now I'm getting onto him about something also and it's going against his grain, and so I don't know that there's much of what I went through or my responses as a tendency to how he's responding, what he is seeing and this is more a point to you, sam, like a point in your column for what you're doing well. I think I'm not a doctor, I'm not a therapist, just here in this conversation. What I think you're doing really well is it doesn't matter near as much what we say, it's how we respond and eventually kids will pick up on that and that helps. And I think what you're doing I agree with you it does have an impact and I think it is powerful, but not just because of some of your clients with your business, I think also just for him, because it may not be turned out the way you think right now, but it may turn out better later. He's just gonna have to learn that in his own time.

Samantha Lander: 34:48

Yeah, I think too. I think, when I think of anger, just from what I just heard with you, it sounds like there was a lot of discipline and not a lot of love. So I had several people who were they get very angry, very frustrated very quickly and it's cause I feel like what I've seen is like either it's a very broken home or it's very structured home and there's not a lot of like just love, like not a lot of like physical hugging, kissing, loving, scratching your back, stuff, like that there's a lot of. And kids pick up on all of that and then they become angry that they don't get it. But they don't know that they're not getting it.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 35:24

So that's what they're missing, yeah.

Samantha Lander: 35:26

And anger, and so sometimes I feel is when you then have a child and you bring someone into the world, it brings up all the shit from your childhood.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 35:36

Alright, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value. I'm Porter. I'm your host. I'm a millennial long-distance father who's attempting to learn about people, teach about life and talk about values with complete strangers. No script, and we're inviting you to listen. In all of my deployments, one thing I've learned is that we need to increase dialogue, showcasing the value of a value system, and just start a civil conversation. Somehow, as Martin Luther King said, we're not judged by the color of our skin, but by the content of our character. To find where perspectives meet values, join us every Monday at 9am Eastern Standard Time on all your favorite podcasting platforms, like directly from our website, transactingvaluepodcast. com, and we'll meet you there.

Samantha Lander: 36:40

Sometimes, I feel, is when you then have a child and you bring someone into the world, it brings up all the shit from your childhood. So then for you it could have been like you have your child, like you have your child with your ex and maybe your ex is giving your kid love that you've never seen, and then that can cause you a lot of frustration and a lot of anger. You know what I mean, because you don't know how to give that, because that wasn't what you were raised with, so it's foreign. So then that creates like a disconnect and it's hard. It's hard for me Like my parents are really loving, but like it's really hard for me to just love on my kid. Even when he was little he was so easy, but I was like in go, I had him full time at that point and it was a lot, and then he had a lot of behavior stuff, and so now I just totally disconnect. You know, and prior to that I have been drinking. So there's a lot going on that I'm trying to figure out. But I literally for people who don't know we were talking about this before we got on the show is my kid has something called oppositional defiant disorder and ADHD, which is a real thing. It's crazy. So for me he's so bad that I can't even look at him and I don't want to hug him. I have to walk away. It's so insane and I was literally praying on it and just being like God. I wish I could just be like a softer parent, and then this got thrown in my lap. So now I'm going to have to learn to be a softer parent, like just in order to save my kid, right? Well, I always tell my sponsor or she told me one day she's like sometimes you're careful, you pray for because a fucking bat might hit your head. You might not like it, you get, which is so true. I pray for a lot of stuff and I'm like damn, like really, but that's how I work, though I need a hard bat to the head.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 38:29

Yeah, I mean it's cool, though, and I think the points you just said sometimes you just want to walk away and you can't look at him and I think, not that you don't, not that you can't just in that moment you get so riled up into whatever direction that it's difficult and I think a lot of those difficulties, man, especially especially being the adults, that's a big pill to swallow, because you're the one that's got to take the pill.

Samantha Lander: 38:52

I know and I'm trying to not, you can't listen to the podcast too and I was like, well, the kid could have had trauma or this growing up. And so I'm like, just don't, I just have to be in the present, like I could. There's all these little things I think about with him growing up and I'm like, fuck, is it because of that? Like I'm starting to take it on, blame myself, total mom shit. Oh, it's my fault. I'm like, don't even the only thing. That's going to be my fault, though I don't do something now that I have the knowledge of what I can do with it, because I will go down that rabbit hole Like you can play the victim. I'm like, just don't go there. Like who cares? Like maybe the nutrition was off, maybe you know, but I was really stressed when I was pregnant. So it's like it makes me think. And like he didn't gain a lot of weight for the first eight weeks of his life because they wouldn't let me do formula and I was trying to breastfeed and he was hungry. He was so hungry. Secondly, he added in formula he was fine, yeah, with the breastfeeding. It was like he slept through the night. It was like crazy. So I'm like, is it that? But then I'm like he was the easiest fucking baby in the world and I'm like, just don't even.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 39:58

Yeah, my mom did a lot of that also, because I was so when I was born not to belabor this conversation too much longer but when I was born this was in the late 80s, and so now 40 weeks is full term, but at the time it was 36 or something like that, and at that point, you know, I was born 14 weeks early. And so what is that? Three and a half months early and there was no, like I was in an incubator for four months and so I couldn't get touched, I couldn't get held, I couldn't get in anything until I was released from there, right, and so you know explain so much, like right here, like you're angry, like they're like that's where you go.

Samantha Lander: 40:35

You know what I mean. It's just like that stress response, Like they say I mean I don't know, Like I was thinking the same thing, Like I feel very strongly that my kid, when I wasn't there, was left to cry out before he was supposed to. You know what I mean, but I don't go there, Don't blame anyone, it is what it is. I mean I would leave and my ex would watch him and hold him like this and he would just cry the whole time. I would leave them, I could go through all that. But yeah, I mean to be to me.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 41:02

It's how you handle it Right. It's how you handle it. Yeah but three months and not being touched.

Samantha Lander: 41:08

And then what do you do? You have to make up for that, as your mom's probably going through the trauma of like having a baby that might.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 41:15

Yeah, well, and I think that's why she was a bit more controlling when I was younger, and then now, over the last 20 years I'd say maybe 25, she's been trying to make up for that, you know, and it's not like it's lost her baby. That's what I mean. It's not unnoticed, yeah, but that's the counterpoint to what you're saying, right, like it's easy to blame yourself, but you weren't him, you're not him, and so he's going to pick up whatever he sees, and so talk about it. Yeah, and here's options and choices and, like I said, he's just going to have to grow in his own time. And that's the human race. You know, everybody grows at a different pace. But, sam, for the sake of time, I really appreciate this conversation and everywhere we went with it. But if anybody wants to reach out to you, find out more about your work, maybe even try to get on with you as a client, how do people get in touch with you or how do people find out more?

Samantha Lander: 42:02

You can do a free discovery call and that's where we kind of talk all things about your health and then I give you kind of a plan on what would work best for you. I keep it pretty individualized. You can find me on Instagram S-E-E-F-I-T and then living, so it's Seefit living, not like the letter C, but S-E-E, seefit living. And then you can Google me Samantha Lander wwwseefitpt. com. Facebook. I'm on there, seefit or Samantha Lander.

Joshua "Porter" Porthouse: 42:33

Sweet. And so, for everybody listening to this, there will be links to Sam's social and then, sam also to your website in the show notes for this conversation. So, depending on where you're playing this, you can click see more. You can click show more in the description and you'll find those links. Or, if you're listening to this on our website, just scroll down and it'll be underneath this player as well. But again, sam, I appreciate the opportunity and I really enjoyed getting to know you a little bit. So that was good, yeah, yeah. So thanks for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you to our show partners and folks. Thank you for tuning in and appreciating our value as we all grow through life together, to check out our other conversations, merchandise or even to contribute through feedback, follows, time, money or talent, and let us know what you think of the show. Please reach out on our website, transactingvaluepodcast. com. We stream new episodes every Monday at 9am Eastern Standard Time through all of your favorite podcasting platforms and we'll meet you there Until next time. That was Transacting Value.