Porter: 0:05

Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for personal values when dealing with each other and even within ourselves. Where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries and finding belonging. My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are your people. This is why values still hold value. This is Transacting Value.

Gary Randolph: 0:32

A lot of people take themselves too seriously and we need to approach life with a joy and a wonder and just an open mind and open hands to just see some fun in life.

Porter: 0:49

Alrighty folks, welcome back to Transacting Value, where we're encouraging dialogue from different perspectives to unite over shared values. Our theme for season four is intrinsic values, so what your character is doing when you look yourself in the mirror. Now, if you're new to the podcast, welcome, and if you're a continuing listener, welcome back. Today we're talking our December core values of faith, hope and love with writer and storyteller Gary Roundelf. I really can't think of any other way to move forward with this except to talk to Gary, especially being that he now has, I'm pretty sure, close to seven books published out on the market. So, without further ado, folks, I'm Porter, I'm your host and this is Transacting Value. Gary, how are you doing? I'm doing fine. How are you, porter? I'm doing well, thanks, look, I really appreciate you taking some time out of your day to come in and talk and really just share your perspective and outlook on the world. There's an interesting I don't know if it's a phenomenon I think maybe there's a lot of creative people where this is more of a common trait. But with as many books as you've written and as much research as you've done to write the books, plus just throughout your career and throughout your life, I can't help but assume you've amassed this unbelievably wild and sort of divergent perspective on the world right, like so many different things you could be studying and taking in to put into your perspective.

Gary Randolph: 2:15

Yeah, in fact one interviewer one time said I had a. Was it a unique perspective, an odd perspective? I like to think that I look at things a little differently and maybe a little deeper.

Porter: 2:28

Okay, well, let's start there then. So, for everybody new to the show, gary and I are actually on a video call and, gary, since a lot of our listeners may even not be familiar with your books, let alone who you are as a person, let's just start there. Who are you, where are you from and what sort of things have actually shaped your perspective?

Gary Randolph: 2:46

Well, my name is Gary Randolph. I write under the name Gary Blaine Randolph. I grew up on a farm in Western Indiana near the town of Clinton, currently live in Anderson, indiana. I've always lived in Indiana but I've traveled around the US, ireland, scotland, england, africa and between traveling and reading widely. I think that has shaped my perspective quite a bit. Over my career I have owned and run a software company. I taught computer programming for Purdue University. For several years I've done freelance software development for clients and now I'm semi retired and still doing some computer work. But my main focus is as a writer and as a storyteller.

Porter: 3:41

So, as you've pulled from, let's just say, working with people, traveling with people all around the world at this point, are you primarily focusing on fiction or nonfiction?

Gary Randolph: 3:51

when you write Fiction, I have written some nonfiction. Years ago I wrote a book on the SQL data language, so maybe I'm the only person to write a database textbook and to write sci-fi comedy, sci-fi comedy yeah, all my books are kind of humorous, comedic in nature. The one line of books, the Galactic Detective Agency I call a lighthearted series of murder mysteries with space aliens, and I have another series. There's just one book out right now, but I'm working on book two called Solomon Blandings and it's really kind of a sci-fi takeoff on the old PG Wode House characters of Jeeves and Wooster. It's for fun, it's for making people laugh and helping them get through the day. What are you trying?

Porter: 4:43

to express, though. I mean, you've got well, like you said, Galactic Detective Agency, essentially sort of sci-fi-esque, but Rode House isms and I see in your background I assume this is one of your other books what was the one about the potato? What is that called?

Gary Randolph: 4:59

Oh, that's a town called Potato. That's the first book in the Galactic Detective Agency series In that series.

Porter: 5:06

So, yeah, what are you trying to communicate, what are you trying to convey with these books? I'll put it to you like this I've heard this before and I've talked to a couple other authors where, as you create characters in stories, it's almost like you leave a little bit of yourself in the story or in the character arc, inadvertently or not. But what are you trying to put into your stories, like, what's the drive?

Gary Randolph: 5:27

there. I really think what I want to do is to brighten people's day. I know in some of my other readings I found joy in reading Douglas Adams or Terry Pratchett or PG Woodhouse, and that's what I try to continue. But I think it's not just bringing a laugh or a smile to someone's face. There's a deeper message there in that a lot of people take themselves too seriously and we need to approach life with a joy and a wonder and just an open mind and an open hands to just see some fun in life and it's not hard to see things to make, you know, find things that are enjoyable, but it's easier, I think, to just walk right past them.

Porter: 6:16

You know, right, it's such a wild occurrence, I guess, where I think it's common to most everybody. Maybe it's stress induced, maybe it's not, I don't really know but to be able to get wrapped up into something that you get so myopically focused, you lose track of what happens around you in any sphere of influence or responsibility or interest, right Like? You get so focused on work, your family life starts to slide. You get so interested in books and movies and entertainment and hobbies, your work life starts to slide, or any other comparison, right? So one of the things that I found to be effective and for anybody new to the show, I'm referring to my perspective being active duty in the Marine Corps, so this is deployments and whatever other stressors have come with that over the years, but what I found in from my perspective, to be more I guess you could say more. The culprit is not clearly understanding what it is. I'm trying to get out of an experience or what it is I'm even trying to pay attention to, let alone what I just happen to, I don't know, osmotically take in. All right, folks stay tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value, the growth of each generation, no matter the temptation at Huff and Cluck or Farm, that's just another Tuesday. Want to learn how to homestead or just more effectively develop your character for an unknown future? Follow or direct message on Instagram at Huff and Cluck or Farm. Watch it happen in real time. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. A foolish man learns from his own. But what I found, from my perspective, to be more I guess you could say more of the culprit is not clearly understanding what it is. I'm trying to get out of an experience or what it is. I'm even trying to pay attention to, let alone what I just happen to. I don't know, osmotically take in. So this is a good time. I think this is a segment of the show called Developing Character. Gary has two questions right. Both are entirely up to you, as vulnerable as you want to be, but they're about your value system. And here's why I think, when it comes to interpreting the world intentionally, meaningfully, trying to find ways to maybe avoid burnout type situations or increase the amount of enjoyment you find in the world or in conversations or relationship with other people, if you're first able to identify what values you prefer to stand by and how you want to interpret the world, it's a lot easier to see the things that can bring you joy and happiness. And you know honor or whatever applies. And so, gary, in this segment, these two questions are totally from your perspective. So my first question is from when you were growing up, what were some of the values you were raised on or what were you primarily exposed to?

Gary Randolph: 9:29

First of all, faith was very important in my family, but secondly, humor was also important. We would have a lot of fun telling jokes and joking around and telling stories on ourselves. And then, thirdly, hard work. My dad was a farmer and worked sunup to sundown and on Sundays would often take family drives on Sunday afternoon just to keep himself from going out and doing some work. And when I was old enough to work, then I worked alongside him.

Porter: 10:06

How did you or how did the two of you, it sounds like learn to appreciate or be able to even set those boundaries? Because it's easy to get sucked into a habit or a hobby or an interest or a passion or just a responsibility, right? So like taking a break is hard.

Gary Randolph: 10:22

It can be, and earlier in my career, as I said, I owned a software company and that was always hard for me and it's a struggle. When you talk about missing some things, earlier, there were times when I was working so hard on the business I missed a few sections of my kids growing up and I regret that and I pledged to not do that as a grandparent, although there's still times. It's not just work that draws us away. We can be doom-scrolling on our phones and miss what kids or grandkids are doing. You need to be present, you need to be aware. I know the thing I would mention about a value growing up, and this is more intrinsically developed from reading as a kid, and that's just the ideas of ethics and fairness and the American ideals that people should be equal under the law, and that's been a guiding principle through my life from a young age.

Porter: 11:19

I don't know now that a lot of those things are explicit as themes in stories or movies, necessarily as much as they used to be. And, for the record, I haven't watched a whole lot of movies recently in the last decade or so or read a whole lot of newer books coming out, so maybe it is. But yeah, I feel like that was a lot more prominent. And I think, in defense of the times now, I'm 36 now, so our generations here and those differences aside, I think there's a lot of nurture behind the fact that those themes carried some resonance of value or ethics or morals or whatever. I don't know that I really even had the reading comprehension to make enough sense of it that this is a good way to live my life. You know, reading about a lion and a mouse, for example, I have nothing in common with those creatures, but you know, when somebody explains it to you from any perspective, it's a lot easier to interpret whatever you might have in common with it. I mean, look at your case, you're writing sci-fi books about a galactic detective agency. That is necessarily not a lot to do with growing up on Earth and, I'm assuming, more to do with activities in outer space and fictionalizing the relationship of these relationships, of these occurrences.

Gary Randolph: 12:28

Yeah, right, but one of the ongoing themes of the book, as my Earth character meets aliens, is a people or people, which is why I add some comedy, because you find that somebody with you know tentacles still has the same issues that we have here. But that's always been a theme of sci-fi to look at some fantastic situation as a mirror held up against our own society and our own life.

Porter: 12:56

Okay, well, let me ask you this then. So this is the second question. All of that having been said, I assume now, and growing over time to your perspective, has changed or enhanced or refined. So what are some of your values now?

Gary Randolph: 13:08

Well, I still have the same values. I am, you know, as I said, semi retired now, so hard work isn't quite the driver that it was before. As a meme I saw recently said, I feel like I've outgrown the idea of employment. But when I am working, whether it's writing or still doing some IT work, I work hard at it. I put in several hours today on some pretty boring writing work of just I do a process between the first draft and the second draft of a word review. There's a whole list of words that I tend to overuse. They have so and that and things like that, and I go through a doing a search one by one of those and evaluate in them. So that's hard work. But I think one of the biggest values that has come to me in the last several years has been just the idea of being present in the moment, which is related to joy, it's related to gratitude. I remember one Christmas, years and years ago, when I had the software company. I was so busy and I was working so hard and I said to my wife look, you just take care of all the Christmas. You can do the shopping, you can do the wrapping and I need to focus on this. And she did that and we came to Christmas Day and I wasn't prepared emotionally, spiritually however you want to say it for Christmas Day. I wasn't because I hadn't been there in the process. I wasn't there in the moment and, you know, I realized that there are things in life you need to do right, there's things you need to stop and experience and there's where you can find real joy in that.

Porter: 14:52

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Gary Randolph: 15:56

There are things in life you need to do right, there's things you need to stop and experience, and there's where you can find real joy in that.

Porter: 16:06

Yeah, experiential learning I think is powerful, but too often it gets relegated to kids and I think it's not I mean the points you just brought up. You would never know that until you became an adult you could have any degree of maturity or whatever family you'd have as a structure, but I did the same thing, sort of. So I don't, frankly, know that I paid attention to too much until I was probably even in my mid-20s. I don't remember a whole lot before then. If I did. But to have opportunities like that I'm not going to. I'm using mistakes here loosely, but I'm not going to make the same mistakes my parents did in raising kids and working too hard and prioritizing one thing over another or a certain way. I did exactly that actually. So I'm a long distance dad myself and over the last now nine years of my son's life basically seven and a half of that I wasn't around. I know a lot of that was due to deployments and training, but I mean there were times even when I was physically present, I wasn't mentally present and I think that's a lot of the issues that not to speak for all service members here, but I think that's a lot of the issues that a lot of service members face where we're not physically present, for a lot of these upbringing type considerations or a lot of these what would you call it managing expectations, opportunities. And then so don't get me wrong there's a lot of joy in coming home and a lot of relief in coming home, but there's sometimes a lot higher difficulty trying to reintegrate and re-socialize. And so, in your case, I'm curious how was that reintegration for you? Reprioritizing or, I don't know, reawakening to your priorities? How did that come about for you?

Gary Randolph: 17:46

There were a number of things, but the biggest shift in my priority toward being in the moment and joy and gratitude came 10 years ago when I had a bout with cancer. I had Hodgkin's lymphoma, which is always the odds of surviving that are very good, and I did survive it. And it's all been 10 years now. Congratulations, thank you. But that changed things Now. First of all, at that point in my career I had left teaching on a university level and I was just doing IT consulting and software development and then all of a sudden I got hit with this and through the chemo I couldn't even think straight most of the time, so my consulting business went down to next to nothing and so I needed to let go of that. I needed to say that isn't my job right now. My job right now is to get through this series of chemo. My job right now is to survive this and come out the other side, and through that also, my wife and my family were very supportive. I have a close group of friends who were very supportive of me, and I realized that those are the things that matter in the long run. As someone has said, very few people on their deathbed would say boy. I wish I had just worked a little bit more. Those are the things that you wish you had done more of our family and friends. A few years ago, a friend of mine retired. He's a little older than me, he retired, and so to kind of give him something to do, I said well, let's get together for coffee once a week. So we started doing that with a group of friends and at first my reaction was I need to fit this into my schedule. I have goals that I do every day. I got a bunch of work to do. I let go of that, and now that's one of the highlights of my week. And then, four and a half years ago, my daughter-in-law gave birth to twins, twin little boys, and she needed help with the boys. So I started going down and spending an afternoon a week with them, and that's one of the highlights of my week to let go of some of the work and to say that'll get done. And if it doesn't get done, this is still more important. I think the idea of being present in the moment is a discipline, almost a spiritual discipline of stopping. One of my hobbies is bike riding, cycling and you can see things on a bicycle that you don't see in a car going 50 or 60 miles an hour. You can see flowers, you can smell flowers, you can see bunnies beside the road and you can take in the scenery and you can be much more present than what you're doing when you're driving fast down the road and listening to the radio and focusing on that. It's a matter of focus. It's a matter of attending to what you want to attend to and having a long-term perspective of what that is that you should be attending to.

Porter: 21:02

Well, aligning that to whatever your priorities are at any point, I think is tricky, even if you've decided, for example, in your case, well, I want to spend more time with family and friends, that's great. But the flip side is there are also responsibilities you have. So balancing all of that, I think, is sort of the implied task there. But I talked to a guy oh man, I don't know, maybe it was 2014 or 15. So I had an opportunity to go to a training course in Monterey, california. I don't know if you've been or for anybody listening, if you've been, but in the sort of I guess you could call it near the main strip in Monterey, where all the shops and bars and whatever are Before you get to Canary Row, before you get over to, say, seaside or down to Pebble Beach or whatever. If it's still there, I don't know, but if it is, I recommend you go to a place called Duffy's. Now, duffy's is pretty cool and here's why, at least at the time when I was there, the guy who ran the place had spent something like 25 years as a professional caddy at Pebble Beach and then just used his money or whatever to run Duffy's. Alright, folks, sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value. I'm Porter, I'm your host, I'm a millennial long-distance father who's attempting to learn about people, teach about life and talk about values with complete strangers no script, and we're inviting you to listen. In all of my deployments, one thing I've learned is that we need to increase dialogue, showcasing the value of a value system and just start a civil conversation. Somehow, as Martin Luther King said, we're not judged by the color of our skin, but by the content of our character. To find where perspectives meet values, join us every Monday at 9am Eastern Standard Time on all your favorite podcasting platforms, like directly from our website, transactingvaluepodcastcom, and we'll meet you there. The guy who ran the place had spent something like 25 years as a professional caddy at Pebble Beach and then just used his money or whatever to run duffies. Well, I had a motorcycle at the time and it was an awesome area to have a motorcycle, well. So I pulled up outside of Duffies one day and I brought the bike there and got off and walked inside and obviously had my helmet whatever. I carried him with me I can't remember his name right now to save my life, but he walked over to me and he said that he used to have a motorcycle and I made small talkouts a great thing to have, you know whatever riding through the area. Whatever he said, yeah, well, then you grow up. I said, oh well, I don't know how to take that, but like I'm a responsible adult, I, you know I'm not offended, but I made my decisions. I paid for this thing. You know, whatever offense I took or my pride took about it, I used to think of it like this you get four wheels for your body, you get two wheels for your soul, and I think a lot of that is similar, at least for me, to the point you're making right now being on a bicycle compared to a car, or slowing down enough off the throttle, so to speak, in life, analogous to maintaining more of a professional rapport with clients or whatever over family and friends that the pace may change. The pace will change. The chaos doesn't have to. I mean, you've got twin grandkids, you know Like there's still so much of an impact that you can have in so much of a relationship that you can build, or even similarity you can find. I think sometimes, when you just look at what you still have in common and you mentioned your diagnosis, dude, that's wild. 10 years now because of cycling or exercise or diet or just chemo, or I mean what happened.

Gary Randolph: 25:02

The chemo is what cured me, along with prayer, but I think cycling came in after. Well, I've always cycled, but afterwards cycling became a way for me to feel strong again, because going through cancer messes with your mind quite a bit. You are weak. Getting it in my 50s I was, you know, I felt old, I looked old and I needed something to help me feel strong again. So you know, you get out on a bike and you pedal as hard as you can and you go fast and you say, okay, I'm getting over this, even though you know the chemo torped my lungs quite a bit. But I seem to be able to recover from that well too.

Porter: 25:47

Well, I mean that's huge. Yeah, I mean aside from the obvious right, Like breathing and bicycling, but just to be able to make the progress and reinvent and realign and reorient and still be able to come out on top, that's huge. Now, you had also mentioned, though, aside from just I guess you could say recognizing life as a gift or as a blessing. The last time we spoke, I mean you had also mentioned that your drive and sort of love for storytelling came about all around the same time as well.

Gary Randolph: 26:14

It did. Cancer is a funny thing. That, for me at least, really hit a reset button and I changed some hobbies around and some interests around from that. But yeah, I began storytelling. I've always you know, as I said, I've had an interest in Ireland and Scotland. I've been there a few times and I started going to some grandkids schools. I have a couple older grandkids One is now 16 and the other's 12, but they were younger then. When I go to their schools and tell stories on St Patrick's Day or go and tell pirate stories or tell stories of growing up on a farm in Indiana, I've got a great story about when a headless chicken chased me and so I started doing that. And when I do storytelling it also includes some songs and poems and jokes and again, that's a way of bringing this smile to people's face and joy to their hearts.

Porter: 27:10

Have you found that a lot of your I guess inspirations have come from other people's experiences and interpretations or your own, as you're crafting these stories and creating characters? That's a good question.

Gary Randolph: 27:22

I tell some historical stories. There's one about an Irish pirate queen, there's stories about Robert the Bruce, the legendary king of Scotland, and there is inspiration to take from those stories sticking to something, being creative, those kinds of things. I don't tell a lot of stories about myself, but I do have some that I've told about. I have a program on down home Indiana and growing up in.

Porter: 27:56

Indiana.

Gary Randolph: 27:57

For me, it's easier to pour the values into a story, your own values into a story, than it is to just tell the story of your life. Maybe I've led a sheltered existence. I don't have great stories.

Porter: 28:12

It's a great point to bring up, though, that in trying to, I guess you could say, expose humanity to humanity through storytelling, in this case values still have an impact. I mean they're not explicitly, generally speaking, at least in the US, they're not explicitly talked about or brought up or attributed to different things aside from, I guess, stereotypical, or a high school football coach or wrestling coach or gym isms, you know. But to be able to convey whatever your value system is or could be, to build relevance and build resonance for your readers even is I mean it's powerful, because you can't anticipate how they're going to interpret what you say. But I mean that's what people latch on to.

Gary Randolph: 28:53

Now here's an example of a story that is about myself and I think it does illustrate the values of being present in a moment and connecting with people. We were in Ireland, in the town of Westport, which is a lovely little town, and it was a Friday night. We went into a restaurant. We didn't have reservations and it was crowded. It was busy, but the hostess said she could probably fit us into this little table, very small table that they had been using to stage glasses out to the other tables, and I said that sounded great. We walked over to the table. I had about a dozen glasses sitting on it and trying to connect, trying to just have fun. I said I don't think I can drink that much, and quick, as you like. The hostess said well, you're sure to see the people, buffar, yeah, and what I take from that is you can connect to people and, like the story you were telling about the guy talking to you about the motorcycle, you can find moments and connect to strangers and you can spread joy into their lives and they can spread joy into your life through those connections.

Porter: 30:09

Alrighty folks, sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value. Alrighty folks, here at Transacting Value, we write and produce all the material for our podcast in-house game perspective alongside you, our listeners, and exchange vulnerability and dialogue with our contributors every Monday morning. But for distribution, both brought the platform to use. You want to know how popular you are in Europe or how Apple is a preferred platform to stream your interviews? Busbroad can do that. You want to stream on multiple players through an RSS or custom feed, or even have references and resources to take your podcast's professionalism, authenticity and presence to a wider audience. Busbroad can do that too. Here's how Start with some gear that you already have in a quiet space. If you want to upgrade, busbroad has tons of guides to help you find the right equipment at the right price. Busbroad gets your show listed in every major podcast platform. You'll get a great looking podcast website, audio players that you can drop into other websites, detailed analytics to see how people are listening, tools to promote your episodes and more. Podcasting isn't hard when you have the right partners. The team at Busbroad is passionate about helping you succeed. Join over 100,000 podcasters already using Busbroad to get their message out to the world Plus. Following the link in the show notes lets Busbroad know we sent you, gets you a $20 credit if you sign up for a paid plan and helps support our show. You want more value for your values. Busbroad can do that too.

Gary Randolph: 31:41

You can find moments and connect to strangers and you can spread joy into their lives and they can spread joy into your life through those connections. Famous quote by Oscar Wilde is some people cause happiness wherever they go and others whenever they go, and in some way that's a choice. In our interactions with the sales clerks or the hostesses at the restaurants or some other person on the road, you can be a person who spreads happiness when you're there or when you go. It's your choice.

Porter: 32:18

I think that's understated, the amount of power that we have, the amount of influence that we have. When you sort of realize your own agency, you really can have a solid impact on somebody's life, for better and for worse, just because you I don't know any number of reasons lose control over yourself in the moment, to whatever degree that applies. There's, I think, also an interesting point where sort of like you've been alluding to throughout this conversation, gary, that there's, I guess you could say, a way to measure the benchmarks distance that you've come, progress you've made throughout life based on, like big ticket type events. I guess benchmarks is a good word for it but you can only really measure the depth and richness based off the little ones. That's what makes it quality, the little nuanced uniquenesses. Like you were talking about a lady and would you say it was West over Ireland, westport Ireland, westport Ireland. Yeah, you can't force those moments, no, no, but that's what makes them worthwhile. It's the same thing in any relationship, right, like a husband and wife, some sort of spousal type relationship, or families or whatever, just between strangers. I think it's all the same sort of considerations. But, gary, I want to make sure we have a couple minutes here too, because you have written a lot of books to this point. What is that? Almost nine total.

Gary Randolph: 33:41

It's 10 now that are out on Amazon 10 books, so congratulations to that as well.

Porter: 33:46

That itself is quite a feat. So, for anybody listening, if they want to find out more about your books, maybe even speaking engagements, anything about your story itself, whatever you obviously care to share or just get in touch with you directly, how do people do it?

Gary Randolph: 34:03

The best way would be to go to my website, which is GRStoryteller GR, as in Gary Randolph storytellercom, and there you can find links to my books. Contact form to get a hold of me if you're interested in storytelling, links to Facebook and Instagram, and there's some videos on there of me singing songs and reciting poems from storytelling performances.

Porter: 34:32

I think it's super cool what you're doing. I mean, there's only so many people now and I'm not saying there's a lot, I'm not saying there's a little, I'm just making a guess here but there's only so many people in the world that can say they are actual storytellers, not people that tell stories, and I think there's a different bit of quality there that comes with a capability like that man. So, as long as you're able, I hope you continue to keep pushing out stories and keep creating and keep inspiring and finding ways to reach people and share your values. I think it's awesome what you're doing and also I think it's unbelievably cool actually how far you've been able to come back and build over the last decade and reorient and just reset man. Congratulations is the only word I could think of.

Gary Randolph: 35:17

Yeah, one thing I want to say for people who are, whether you're approaching retirement age or you're in a midlife and you're feeling that this isn't working, you need a different career. Never be afraid to reinvent yourself. That's what I have really found. I owned a software company and sold it and taught college and then left that and did IT work and then left that for storytelling and writing. And there's always another you in there. Look for that other you. That's something else that I learned coming out of cancer.

Porter: 35:57

I love it. I love it and I think it's an opportunity to be able to have this conversation and just listen to your perspective and then share it with everybody who listened to us. I appreciate your time, man. I know you've got other things going on in your life and other ways you could be spending your time, but the fact that you chose to take 30, 45 minutes, whatever out of your day to come talk, I appreciate the opportunity. So thanks again.

Gary Randolph: 36:18

Thank you, Porter. It's been great chatting with you.

Porter: 36:21

You're welcome and for everybody listening. If you want to be able to reach out to Gary, check out his website or any of his books. We'll have links to that in the show notes for this conversation as well. So, depending on your streaming platform or if you're even playing off our website, you can click see more, you can click show more, scroll down underneath this player and it'll give you the description for the conversation. In there You'll find the links to get to Gary's website and the social media profiles as well. But I'd also like to thank you guys for tuning in and listening to our conversation, what we talked about, our core values for December of faith, hope and love. Thank you to our show partners and folks. Thank you for tuning in and appreciating our value as we all grow through life together. To check out our other conversations, merchandise or even to contribute through feedback, follows, time, money or talent, and let us know what you think of the show. Please reach out on our website. Transacting value podcastcom. We stream new episodes every Monday at 9am Eastern Standard Time through all of your favorite podcasting platforms and we'll meet you there until next time. That was transacting value.