Porter: 0:05

Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for personal values when dealing with each other and even within ourselves. Where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries and finding belonging. My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are your people. This is why values still hold value. This is Transacting Value.

Vanessa Rogers: 0:32

Folklore is living right. It's always constantly changing and moving with the tide of the culture.

Porter: 0:44

Alrighty, folks, welcome back to Transacting Value, where we're encouraging dialogue from different perspectives to unite over shared values. Our theme for season four is intrinsic values, so what your character is doing when you look yourself in the mirror. Now, if you're new to the podcast, welcome, and if you're a continuing listener, welcome back. Today we're talking our November core values of gratitude, appreciation and resilience, and also for our final mini series of this season called Inherent Value. So we're talking about, essentially, things that give our intentions, traditions, maybe even some of our fondest memories depth, resonance, sentimentality, those kinds of things. And frankly, I couldn't think of a better way to do it with a podcast or specializing in connection culture and folklore. Host of the podcast. Fabric of folklore, vanessa Rogers. So, folks, without further ado, I'm Porter, I'm your host and this is Transacting Value. Vanessa, how you doing?

Vanessa Rogers: 1:42

I'm doing great. How are you doing?

Porter: 1:45

I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I appreciate you making some time out of your morning to come on the show and talk for a little bit, though, so thank you.

Vanessa Rogers: 1:50

Yeah, no problem, I'm excited to be here.

Porter: 1:53

Thanks. There's a lot of things that I really don't understand, especially when it comes to folklore, so I'm pretty excited to dive into this, but I think it would be a disservice to everybody listening if I started there, so let me back up first. As far as you're concerned, and as far as everybody listening to this is concerned, you guys don't know each other and chances are you haven't met right. So let's just start with who you are, where you're from and what sort of things have shaped your perspective.

Vanessa Rogers: 2:21

Well, I'm Vanessa Rogers. I'm from Texas. I was born and raised here, but I've traveled quite a bit around the world. I did a study abroad program in Italy, went in college and taught English in South Korea and in Chile, and then lived in several different states. One of the fun thing that I did while I was in college is I did a Disney internship, so I did live in Florida on Disney World Campus for a semester. So I've done a lot of different traveling and so throughout these travels I really enjoyed understanding that the world is so wide and varied and there's so many different perspectives and every single place, even within the same country, even within this, going to different states, it felt eye-opening. Every single time I went to a new place, even just changing jobs, sometimes different cultures within same cities, but if you're moving to a different, for instance, when I lived in Ohio, I worked at a family video store. They still had them around. They closed during COVID, but it was an actual store, just like Blockbuster, and they were thriving at that point. But I ended up moving to it, working at it, daycare and just moving from those different positions. It was very different cultures and every single time I'm in a new environment. I am just always taken aback at how different people are in different places, and so I am a student of social sciences. I always say my degree in background is I have a bachelor's in communication studies and then I have a master's in business and international business. And the reason I wanted to focus on that was because I feel like the world is getting smaller and it's so important to understand different perspectives. And so I started the podcast, partially because I wanted to do some research and I thought it was a great way to reach out to people and speak to those who are really invested in folklore about the topics. That was starting to research and I just enjoy so much learning about how people in different places have entirely different perspectives. Was that a really long? That was a really long response to your question.

Porter: 5:00

Oh, that's fun. That's fun, totally cool. But I am curious. You said folklore a couple times, and to me that means like campfire story. Is that all it is, or what are you even talking about?

Vanessa Rogers: 5:12

No. So think of this. When we were first talking about it, when I started this podcast originally fabric of folklore I thought that folklore was primarily folktales, like what you were saying, stories that are around the campfire, but in actuality, it is the threads that make up the fabric of our world. So it's the DNA that runs under culture. It is culture. And if you talk to folklorists, I was actually trying to we're starting a project on fabric of folklore, of collecting folklore from around the world and trying to start some sort of archive, and so one of the things I was just writing up was trying to define folklore. You know, in a little type box there is not really a type box to define it, because different folklorists with different specialties will define it in lots of different ways. So it encompasses so many different things. So it will encompass jokes, language. Even if you have teenagers who are texting one another, their language is entirely different from what a millennial will text to one another, and that is folklore. That is a shared language that they have created together, that is unique to their generation, and so folklore encompasses basically anything that touches culture. So if you go to a work environment, their culture we call it corporate culture is folklore. How you are allowed to dress one another, how you are allowed to dress in the office, are you allowed to stay home or do they want you to come into work, all of those elements are part of the folklore that they have created, the cultures that they've created. So they're not synonymous. Folklore and culture are not synonymous with one another, but they are very much intertwined with one another, so sounds like very wide reaching.

Porter: 7:11

Yeah, well, it makes sense too, right, If you draw it way back to Herculaneum or cave drawings and hieroglyphics in ancient Egypt or whatever you want to tie it back to. But, like our ancient times, it was their work times, it was their living times, it was their religions and fairy tales and ways to communicate life lessons, right, but to us, I mean, that's what's formed based on our creative interpretations of those things, the stories around the campfires today. So I guess, as an origin story, actually kind of like that, the origin story of folklore, I suppose, was everything you're talking about, right? So, matter of fact, you wrote on your website or you've got a blog, I guess, right running on your website all about fables and fairy tales and mythology and these things that are more sort of fictionalized versions of ancient realities, right?

Vanessa Rogers: 8:01

Right, yeah, but they're not always fictional for the people who are telling them, so it depends on the tellers.

Porter: 8:09

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Vanessa Rogers: 9:12

Right, yeah, but they're not always fictional for the people who are telling them, so it depends on the tellers.

Porter: 9:20

Well, so let's do this then. Since I consider you a folklore-ish storyteller, I guess that this is a segment of the show called Developing Character.

Vanessa Rogers: 9:31

Developing Character.

Porter: 9:32

Developing Character. All right, and so if variables depend on the teller, let's start with you, then, as the teller. So, for anybody new to the show, this particular segment is only two questions, but it's really going to set the tone, the underpinnings, I guess, for the rest of our conversation, and it's rooted in value systems. Okay now, vanessa, answers are entirely up to you, as willing and vulnerable as you want to be. No hot button, no hot seat. It's totally fair game, though. So my first question as you were growing up then, what were some of your values at the time?

Vanessa Rogers: 10:05

You know, I've been thinking about this a lot lately after we've been communicating and I recently watched the movie Inside Out. Have you seen that show? Yeah, yeah, that movie. It was made in 2016, so your viewers might not have seen it in a long time, but we watched it with my kids and it's all about emotions that are controlling Riley. Riley is a little girl who moves from one city I think Minnesota, some cold climate and then she moves to San Francisco and that's relevant because she goes from a hockey culture to a place where there's not really a lot of hockey but anyways, in her world there are events that have happened that have formed her core memories, her core values kind of forms, her personality and it's like a goofball city and honesty and family. And the other day I was at SeaWorld with my children and we were holding hands with my husband and my kids and my son goes we're on Family Island and he was referencing the movie that was. You know, this is a core memory for him. That was something very special.

Porter: 11:13

That's a good feeling.

Vanessa Rogers: 11:15

And I was yeah, it was, it really was that it was special for him, and so I was kind of thinking back about how one even determines what their values are, and so I was trying to figure out what were some of the core memories that I had growing up, that kind of set the tone for my personality. I would say that I was always very silly. I can't really set a timeframe. I've always been someone who enjoys being silly and loves a good laugh. I am a very happy person. I'm not one that dismisses other emotions. I believe that emotions you need to be true to all of those emotions, but it's important to try and find hope and light in the darkness. So that is always something that I've been really passionate about not necessarily passionate about, but something that I have striven for.

Porter: 12:14

So, for I'm not sure I saw that. Maybe I saw it after yeah.

Vanessa Rogers: 12:19

So trying to find, you know, the light when there is a darkness. I have always gravitated towards performance. As a kid I loved being in plays and in theater and performing and I don't know what value necessarily that was, but I really enjoyed the act of performing. And you know, a lot of people think that the actors or singers or people who perform don't get scared, but that's the opposite of true, I think. If you do get scared, but it's a an amazing feeling to push past that and find that courage to go forward, even though you could make an entire fool of yourself. And that's actually something I've thought about a lot during this podcast. You know, when you start a podcast, you're really putting yourself out there and you feel really vulnerable because you're putting out this work and any projects like this. You know if you, even if you write just a book, you're really putting yourself out there for you to be judged.

Porter: 13:22

Yeah.

Vanessa Rogers: 13:23

And it's kind of made me think a lot about people in Hollywood and how we are so quick to dismiss people and judge them. But they are like putting themselves out there and it's not easy to do, it's hard. It's hard to put yourself out there to be judged and looked at and ridiculed by anyone. I mean, at the same time people will admire you, but you know it's two sides of the coin. Yeah, it really can be.

Porter: 13:51

But it gives a cool opportunity, though, to what you just brought up the fact that people might be judging you, and, whether they are or not, like that's not within our control. That's not really my point, but just the fact that people might be, or the fact that people could, and then developing a willingness to be OK with that possibility, to accept chance and accept risk. And I feel like and not specific to podcasting, but to our current example of podcasting that there is a certain vulnerability to that, because, yeah, you're revealing your perspective, a little bit in parts of yourself, and maybe even intimate parts of yourself, that you normally don't bring up in a public setting, and I'll tell you this for anybody listening who's unfamiliar with podcasting, especially primarily on transacting value, as a more exclusive audio only podcast, I've got some intentional distance. You don't see my face, you don't see Vanessa's face, but we can see each other, and so there's more vulnerability, I think, when you see people and hear people at the same time than if you just hear somebody on a phone call or hear an audio recording, for example. But from the speaker's perspective, like you talked about earlier, from the teller's perspective, the vulnerability may be identical. In fact, it might even be more anxiety driven, or written, because you may not know what people think about you and then it's all up to chance in your head or whatever you make it out to be. You know. So in developing skill sets like that and how to process some of those, I guess you could say softer skills or ways to cope and ways to manage and work through possibilities in life and risk, you have to grow and change with time. And so, vanessa, I guess this is my second question for this segment what then, are some of your values now?

Vanessa Rogers: 15:38

You know, I feel like I haven't. I mean, I have changed. I have changed and I have grown, but I feel like I haven't changed so much from the person I was as a child to who I am today. I think that I've just kind of expanded on those same sort of values. You know, I was looking through some value systems before we were talking to try and determine what are my values, what are my values, and there are, you know, really long lists. One thing I think I have really grasped onto is empathy. That, I think, is really critical and important, and it goes back to the judgment that we were talking about before. It's so easy to judge people. It's so easy to see what they're doing from the outside and just judge whatever that they're doing. But it's a lot harder to try and put yourself in someone's shoes and say you know, we don't know what they're going through, we don't know what's happening in their life. I'm going to lead with love. I'm going to just assume that they are trying and doing the best that they absolutely can and give them the benefit of the doubt rather than starting off with I don't know what they're doing, I don't like who they are, without actually knowing what someone is going through, and that is something that I feel like I've really, especially as a mom, had to work on a lot, because as a mom you are, I'm a stay at home mom as well, so I am surrounded with my kids all the time, and so it's really easy to lose your temper. You know, because you hear the word mom 50 times.

Porter: 17:11

Yeah.

Vanessa Rogers: 17:11

And it's really hard sometimes to stay grounded, and so I have to take myself out of those moments and try and empathize with what my kid is going through, because, you know, a lot of times we forget that kids have so little control over their lives and we tell them what they have to do and where they have to go and what they have to wear, and it can be really hard and they have really big emotions and they don't know what to do with those emotions and they come out and really in different ways. The other night my son was acting really angry and I was not reacting well and he was like I just overreacted and then he just started crying. And you know, sometimes he was just missing his dad is that was gone for a couple days and his emotions got all jumbled up and so he started acting out because of he was sad, and so you just have to, as a mom, I have a hard time sometimes remembering that they're going through things too. You know they're not just doing things to me, they're having emotions of their own and they're trying to work through how to move through them and move through life, and it's my job to kind of help them harness those emotions into you know productivity, or trying to work through them. So I think empathy is one of the biggest things that I find is something that I struggle with and we all struggle with. That is important to me and that's one of the things that I love about fabric of folk words. Like I said before, it's really about trying to create connections and trying to help others understand where other people from different cultures are coming from, and that's really the end of the painting is the empathy. If we can have empathy for others, then we're less likely to judge, we're more likely to lead with love and kindness.

Porter: 19:07

Alrighty folks, sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value. Alrighty folks, here at Transacting Value, we write and produce all the material for our podcast in-house game perspective alongside you, our listeners, and exchange vulnerability and dialogue with our contributors every Monday morning. But for distribution, both brought the platform to use. You want to know how popular you are in Europe or how Apple is a preferred platform to stream your interviews? Buzzsprout can do that. You want to stream on multiple players through an RSS or custom feed, or even have references and resources to take your podcast's professionalism, authenticity and presence to a wider audience. Buzzsprout can do that too. Here's how Start with some gear that you already have in a quiet space. If you want to upgrade, buzzsprout has tons of guides to help you find the right equipment at the right price. Buzzsprout gets your show listed in every major podcast platform. You'll get a great looking podcast website, audio players that you can drop into other websites, detailed analytics to see how people are listening, tools to promote your episodes and more. Podcasting isn't hard when you have the right partners. The team at Buzzsprout is passionate about helping you succeed. Join over 100,000 podcasters already using Buzzsprout to get their message out to the world Plus. Following the link in the show notes let's Buzzsprout know we sent you. Gets you a $20 credit if you sign up for a paid plan and helps support our show. You want more value for your values. Buzzsprout can do that too.

Vanessa Rogers: 20:39

If we can have empathy for others, then we're less likely to judge. We're more likely to lead with love and kindness.

Porter: 20:47

Sure, well, and it's like you said earlier too, cultures, generally speaking, are generationally changing. And so if how you're qualifying and for this conversation let's say we do but if how you're qualifying culture is based on how people communicate and view the world and interpret it, communicating with each other, communicating out to other generations, whatever, well then your kids being frustrated that don't know how to communicate in a way that you understand and interpret effectively, or vice versa, I'm sure, is just as much a cultural nuance as somebody in tribal Africa compared to somebody in urban New York, conceptually. So if you're talking about, I guess you could say, in its own right moming should have its own folklore line.

Vanessa Rogers: 21:34

Oh, I absolutely agree, and I've been trying to find someone to come on and talk about the folklore of moms, because I think it's a lot of times we get brushed under the rug. But I think the world of mothering is very interesting. There's so many different views of how one should mother and there's a lot of judgment.

Porter: 21:55

Oh, maybe like a mini series. If you take a couple of your episodes and like fabric of folklore for moms or fabric of folklore for dads, or whatever, that'd be kind of cool. So, rolling into that, though, in being able to communicate any of those things to anybody else, it's got to come down to the what's the phrase for a good storyteller? Silver Tongue, right.

Vanessa Rogers: 22:18

Yeah, yeah.

Porter: 22:21

So to be able to convey those things in ways people are able to understand and interpret and be entertained by or educated through, or whatever applies. How does somebody develop that? Is that a nature thing? Is it a nurture thing? Is it trainable? Is it artistic interpretation? What's your insight?

Vanessa Rogers: 22:38

Oh, I definitely think it's trainable. But I do think that there are people who have, you know, innate talents, that it comes with their innate personality, that they have, you know, the ability to tell a good story. But I do definitely think that it is absolutely trainable. There are a lot of courses out there for people who want to become storytellers and I think a lot of times storytellers come from families of storytellers and they're not necessarily professional storytellers, but their family are people who come together and they enjoy a good story, they talk to one another and they tell each other stories and feed off of one another, and so I definitely do think that there is generational storytelling that happens. But there are lots of courses that I've seen out there, because I love having storytellers on this show, because they're so entertaining and their personalities are big and fun to have on a podcast, and so I have been seeking them out and it is absolutely trainable.

Porter: 23:40

And that makes a lot of sense now hearing you say that, matter of fact, you talked about what was it? Theater, performances or dance? Yeah, it was theater, theater. Okay. So I did a little bit of acting in my day, nothing substantial in my opinion, but when I was in college, I was in the theater department and in fact I'm going to say it like this, as humbly as I can brag about it I was so good in my acting capabilities actually, that they said you know what we need, a set designer more than you as an actor. And I said, oh well, okay.

Vanessa Rogers: 24:12

All right.

Porter: 24:14

I think humility goes a long way too, and maybe eventually you just sort of learn where you're stronger. But what's cool about being involved in the theater department I'm talking musical theater, I'm talking straight plays, I'm talking anything along those lines that give you an opportunity to express creativity and interpretation about how you want to artistically mimic life. But in that there's some I think it's primarily for improv and there's a lot of drama schools and you and I had talked previously I think now, maybe a couple of weeks or a month ago, I can't remember exactly but about the American Folklore Society and a couple other places too, even all the way up to, I'm pretty certain, in the backyard as improv classes. But you know where there's a group of people that say there's five people and one person says a sentence and maybe you get a theme, maybe you get a character, maybe you get a starting point, but one person says a sentence, next person carries through the theme, says a new sentence, and so on, and you go around the circle. Everybody gets a sentence till eventually you have a story. Now, if the people you've talked to on your show, or of the stories you've read, or of the studies you've conducted and the research you've done. Have you found that to be kind of the theme, because I can't help but think that's really all stories are. It just happens to be one person, one generation, one person 100 years later, one person in a different century, so on and so on. Contributing to the same theme is that.

Vanessa Rogers: 25:35

I think that is very true. I think that circumstances will change the story.

Porter: 25:44

Party folks stay tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value. It just happens to be one person in one generation, one person a hundred years later, one person in a different century, so on and so on. Contributing to the same theme. Is that common?

Vanessa Rogers: 26:48

I think that is very true. I think that circumstances will change the story. So, for instance, I had a guest on that talked about a very famous folklore story that happened in London Spring Hill Jack he was also called. He had some other names, but the story started in London and then it traveled to Russia and the story itself changed a lot. The Spring Hill Jack man was someone who was a villain and he jumped really high fences and he was kind of like a thief. And then in Russia they had this folklore but it was actually people, gangs, like young children, gangs who was during like a really difficult time in Russia history and there was a lot of economic turmoil. But there were these gangs and they were pretending to be Spring Hill Jack. There were all these rumors, but they were actually physically doing these things to kind of enact the folklore of the London story. And it's unclear exactly how. It went from London to Russia and then it traveled as well to the Ukraine and to Germany during World War Two and it changed from a villain to a superhero who was fighting the Nazis. And so the circumstances changed the character of the folklore story, but it had roots all the way. It was traveling through the continent and just changing with the tellers depending on their circumstances and the time, and so it absolutely does change. And one person will tell one variation over here and another person will tell this variation and the person who hears maybe both those variations will tell their own. And so folklore is living right. It's always constantly changing and moving with the tide of the culture.

Porter: 28:47

Super cool. I just pulled it up actually on your website. So it says you recorded or posted this April 25th 2023, episode 9 on February 4th. Yeah, yeah, so listen into your talk, that is a cool one. Yeah, well, listen and you talk about it. It sounds cool. I mean, don't get me wrong, I haven't actually listened to it yet, so I can't draw too many comparisons between Jack, I guess in this case, and I don't know, superman or Spiderman, when Stan Lee created him, right, but I'm sure prior to Spiderman being a hero, somebody thought there'd be a spider villain. Or drawing parallels between things that they found fearful or that they found disgusting, or pick a negative word with negative meaning and then turn it into a villain. Right, but, like you said, people create stories all the time. This is kind of cool. You put a quote here on your website. He says this is from I mean, I might butcher this, but Dr Peter Genesek.

Vanessa Rogers: 29:39

Yeah, I think they say you said.

Porter: 29:41

Yeah, so he's the guy for anybody listening that Vanessa talked to on this particular episode. But he said I also check Nazi secret service records because they monitored rumors and stories. He says it was beyond their level of recognition, it was just stories, but it was very important for the people because it was some kind of hope in the bleak times. And hope, like you brought up earlier, it's very difficult to describe and it's very difficult personally, to me, in my opinion at least, it's very difficult to get. I think we're at now 8 billion people ish around the world to see that one light of hope from each different perspective, and so cultural stories convey that. You know it's like, even from a business perspective. You mentioned a little bit of your background earlier. I don't remember when this was. I just remember it was a strategic business class and we were talking about when UPS tried to move into maybe the Netherlands or something like that. If anybody remembers, just feel free to comment or send me an email or something. But I'm pretty sure it was in the Netherlands and when they move there their color is brown. That's the UPS color. Anyways, in the Netherlands. If it's the wrong country, sorry, but if it were the Netherlands. As the story went, their country color for mourning like death mourning was brown, and so UPS was like oh no, we can't do this. And then they had to do some sort of color swaps and rebranding within the country's borders. Do you think any of those considerations let's call them strategic rebranding of storylines, of characters you know, for hope, or to showcase a certain array of I don't know nuanced values or something Do you think people change them to convey the same points? Or do you think when people do that, it changes the meaning of the story? Or does it enhance and make better the meaning of some of these stories?

Vanessa Rogers: 31:37

Yeah, I mean, I think that it depends. You know, it depends on if someone's doing it intentionally or not, but I think a lot of times the tellers just take a story and internalize it and then retell it to the way that it makes sense to them and they think that it'll make sense to the people that they're telling the story to.

Porter: 31:59

So that's it for this episode of Artifokes. Stay tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value. Interested in history or humanities, international cultures or expressive storylines? Did you know that, according to the American Folklore Society, folklore includes traditional art, stories, knowledge and practices of people? Did you know that folklore embraces a more inclusive view of cultural creativity that advocates for respect and mutual understanding of the world's diverse cultures? But what does that really mean, and how can you showcase or support carrying on traditions of storytelling about fairy tales, superheroes and campfire tales when there doesn't seem to be any practical relevance today? You get inspiration, insight and ideas from the podcast Fabric of Folklore. Unravel cultural mysteries through interviews about storytelling and discovery with host Vanessa Rogers as she takes us along humanity's journey from Pangea to Pan America and every continent in between. Plus, there's even more reverence and compassion for societies than just what's represented in the stories. Get behind the scenes insight into the communities, people, places and interactions with the history that actually inspired the lore. Where did it come from? Were they based off true individuals or were they entirely fictional? Find out what's woven into the fabric of oral storytelling through decades and depths of creative expression on the podcast Fabric of Folklore. Watch on YouTube or online at fabricoffolklorecom today.

Vanessa Rogers: 33:21

A lot of times the tellers just take a story and internalize it and then retell it to the way that it makes sense to them. They think that it'll make sense to the people that they're telling the story to. Sometimes I think it might be intentional, like what you were saying, how the UPS had to re-strategize their usage of their colors. I think also, sometimes when we listen to a story, we hear what we hear based off of our perspective and our experiences. We're not necessarily hearing the actual words. We're hearing what our experiences are translating for us. We retell the story based off of what our previous experiences have been. It makes sense in our head, but it might not actually be the same at all.

Porter: 34:15

That's exactly why that vulnerability you talked about earlier and a willingness to get out in the open, sometimes with our opinions and our views and our perspectives, helps, because you need rejection just as much as you need a grievance. You need failure just as much as you need a win. I think sometimes, especially when you're trying to craft a really, really good story, you got to have enough people saying dude, that doesn't make sense. You can't say it like that. That doesn't add up. The theme changes. The proofreaders, the people that say your paragraphs don't have continuity. That's huge, even with stories Saying that. For the sake of time, vanessa, if anybody wants to find out more about Fabrica, folklore or even any of the stories that you researched and referenced, follow your line of schooling and get into what you're doing. Any and all the above. How do people reach out? How do they get in touch?

Vanessa Rogers: 35:09

Well, I'm on most of the social medias, but we have a website, wwwfabricafolklorecom, and we have the newest episodes on there. We are on YouTube, so our podcast is a video podcast, but you can also listen on your platform. I personally, as a mom, I'm always just listening to things. I would not watch my show, I would listen to my show, because this is how I roll in my day. We're on Spotify and Apple Podcast. If you just look up Fabrica Folklore, you can find us on any of the major podcasting platforms. We're on Facebook, instagram and even on Twitter or X, whatever it's called. You say it could all be around by the time of this showing. I'm on that platform, who knows?

Porter: 35:56

Yeah, time will tell. Time will tell, just like a lot of these stories, I suppose. So, saying that to everybody who's listening, depending on the streaming platform you're listening to, click See More, click Show More, or, if you're on our website, you can just scroll down underneath this player. But the links for Vanessa's podcast, fabrica Folklore, and the social media as well, that will be linked directly in there, so you can just click. It'll take you right to our website or right to whatever other podcast player you prefer and you can listen to her show there. That'll help tie the two together. But, vanessa, man, I wish well, I guess I could. It's sort of up to me, but I wish I made this podcast a little bit longer. I really love this topic. I think it's a super cool angle on social sciences, on sociology and sort of the hard facts of how people communicate and build relationships, but also the softer skills and telling stories and the art form behind. Well, I guess the art form behind the hard form Super cool. I love what you're doing. I wish you the best of luck creating this and building it out, but for right now, in the short term, I appreciate your time communicating it. So thanks again.

Vanessa Rogers: 37:02

Yeah, well, thanks for having me. I'm excited that you invited me on the show, because I do really feel like our podcasts are a good fit for one another. They're looking at the world from a specific angle, and I think value is such an interesting way to look at the world, and so I'm excited to have you come on the show and talk about value systems, because I find that fascinating as well.

Porter: 37:24

Yeah, yeah, here pretty soon for everybody listening. Vanessa and I also going to record on fabric of folklore, so be on the lookout for that.

Vanessa Rogers: 37:31

That's right.

Porter: 37:32

Yeah, thanks for the second time. Everybody you listen and thank you for tuning in and listening to our core values of November for November, rather of gratitude, appreciation and resilience. Also to this final mini series of season four now and Heron value. You guys are awesome. I appreciate the opportunity. I hope you guys appreciate the message. Send us some feedback, let us know what's going on. I'd also like to think I think it was Pixar that made inside out. I'd like to thank SeaWorld. I'd like to thank the theater department at your schools and obviously all the research and all the people you've had come on your show so far, because without all those experiences, life doesn't have the depth and the meaning and sort of the gravity and impact that your perspective and your communication style convey.

Vanessa Rogers: 38:21

Absolutely. Every single guess I've had on the show, I feel like has widened my perspective and made me rethink things that I thought of and knew about the world Absolutely.

Porter: 38:32

Yeah, 100%, exactly empathize with what you're talking about. Yeah, same thing on this show. It's a super cool opportunity and I wouldn't trade it for anything other. It's a blast. Thank you to our show partners and folks. Thank you for tuning in and appreciating our value as we all grow through life together. To check out our other conversations, merchandise or even to contribute through feedback follows, time, money or talent and let us know what you think of the show. Please reach out on our website, transactingvaluepodcastcom. We stream new episodes every Monday at 9 am Eastern Standard Time through all of your favorite podcasting platforms and we'll meet you there Until next time. That was Transacting Value.