Most of us have been talking our entire adult lives. But that does not necessarily translate into being an effective There's a big difference between talking at someone versus communicating with someone.

Alrighty, folks. Welcome back to transacting value where we're encouraging dialogue from different perspectives to unite over shared values. Our theme for 20 22 is the character of your character.

Who you see when you look your values in the mirror? Today, we're talking our August core values of generosity, justice, intact. With miss Jennifer Furlong, host of the podcast communication 24 7.

If you're new to this podcast, welcome, and if you're a continuing listener, welcome back. Without further ado, folks on Porter, I'm your host, and this is transacting value. Jen, what's going on?

How you doing? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. I'm really excited to be here. I love that you have your values outlined for each month, generosity, justice, and taxes.

So I'm looking forward to talking about it. You know, it's been a cool sorta social experiment in this process of putting a podcast together for sure, but also talking about values.

Anything sort of rooted in character or a value system, I think generally is difficult to discuss because it involves some critical thought or introspection, but you sort of got an uphill climb too.

Like, communicating about how to communicate almost seems like a a roundabout topic.

So I'm curious on your perspective there, how that came about, and how you accomplish going about that as a discussion point. But first, especially since people can't see you, I'd like to dive into you a little bit.

Who is Jen for along? Who is Jen Furlong? Well, I like to say that I'm in phase 3 of my career path -- Okay. -- when I first started out 30 plus years ago, I graduated high school, and college just was not in the cards for me.

So I decided to join the military. I went right into the marine corps and I went into public affairs. So I was able to experience journalism and being an editor. For the Quantico Century, and I was a community relations NCO for a while.

So that was my deep dive. Into the field of communication. So by the time I got out, I knew that this is what I wanted to do. It just kind of went from there. I worked in the industry for a little while as a communication specialist.

And then eventually I went back and got my master's degree. And 1 of my professors asked me if I wanted to teach a public speaking class even though I did not know what in the heck I was doing.

But, like, everything else, I was like, okay. I'll try it out. We'll see what happens. Yeah. And I fell in love with it. And so I thought at the college level, it's been 18 years now. Oh, well. And now I'm moving on to the next phase.

I opened up my own business. Communication 20 47I go into organizations and I help them manage their most difficult communication challenges. And as you can imagine, right now, Everybody's kinda going back to work.

You know, we have this hybrid workforce thing going on. Everybody's having to relearn how to communicate again, how to get along, again, how to work in teams again, especially when they're face to face.

So it's been a challenge, but I absolutely love it. My passion is helping others learn how to develop their skills so that they can become more confident and confident communicators.

Because at at the end of the day, that's what helps us become successful. Sure. Now you said competent and confident communicators. What does that entail? Just knowing words, increasing your vocabulary?

What do you mean? Well, it's not necessarily increasing your vocabulary because that's the end of the day. You don't need to know all of these, you know, like, 50 dollar words to be able to get your your point across.

But You do need to understand how communication works. It is a skill, just like any other skill. So you have to work at it to get good at it.

That requires building a strong foundation of understanding what communication process is like, what the different elements, that are involved that impact whether or not the communication process can be successful or not.

That's what I mean by developing your confidence so that you can understand how all the different pieces of the puzzle work together.

And then your level of confidence, of course, the more empowered you feel through increasing your confidence level, the more confident you will also become.

So they kinda go hand in the hand. Sure. It's interesting you bring up being confident communicating, especially adults. Most of us have been talking our entire lives. I think that's a safe assumption to some degree or another.

But to get more confident in your public speaking, I look at it like this. When we started discussing this topic a little bit, I was trying to figure out what's relatable between talking to strangers and relating to them?

And you said, developing confidence as a public speaker Well, in my opinion, unless you're talking to yourself in a vacuum, every conversation you have out loud is public.

Right? So Oh, yeah. Yeah. So how do you build confidence? Is it like getting over stage fright? Is it like talking to different people from different cultures and learning perspectives? What is confidence when you communicate?

It's all of the above. When you think about it, whether you're talking about having a discussion with someone 1 on 1, or you're up on a stage and you're delivering a presentation to, like, you know, a thousand people.

Sure. Your ability to be able to get your message across to the audience.

Depends on multiple things that are happening. So 1 of the things that I want to go back to to answer this question is you had mentioned earlier that, you know, most of us have been talking our entire adult lives.

But that does not necessarily trans relate into being an effective communicator. There's a big difference between talking at someone versus communicating with someone.

Inadequate communication skills can be costly in terms of relationships, reputation, and revenue. From staff to the c suite, all employees deserve quality training that will help be successful.

If your company is looking to improve employee morale and relationships, contact communication 24 7 today by visiting WWW dot communication 24 7 dot com for a free 30 minute consultation.

Communication 24 7 provides tailored training programs that help organizations create positive and productive work environments. Also, check out the communication 24 7 podcast.

Available wherever you listen to podcasts. And so in order to communicate with someone, you have to come to that interaction with the understanding that It's not as simple as we're gonna just exchange information. You talk.

I talk. You talk. I talk. There's a whole lot of stuff that's going on in there that could cause all kinds issues instead what I like to invite people to do is to think about communication in terms of creating a shared meaning.

So what that means is if I'm the 1 speaking, I need to take into consideration multiple things, what is the situation we're in right now, and that entails a lot of things, physical location, the time of day, the culture that both of us come from, the values that both of us believe in.

All of those things are gonna have an impact on frame of reference. And that frame of reference is the lens through which we see the world.

And it's, you know, that lens is shaded slightly different from for all of us depending on our level of education, our experiences, our mentors, you know, on and on.

So, yeah, there are a lot of similarities between having an everyday conversation in public speaking.

There are some differences that you do have to be mindful of whether you want to build your confidence within interpersonal communication skill versus public speaking. You know, public speaking does tend to be a little more formal.

The audience at least within our culture understands that they are to listen and not interrupt during a formal presentation, whereas in conversation, you have that give and take.

Right? Sure. You say something and then they you know, they catch up on something or you listen to them and you hear them say something and it kind of builds that organic back and forth.

Yeah. Well, I guess that makes sense too if you're up on a stage.

Like, I saw your TED talk. I think it was a couple years ago. 17, I think it was. I imagine that's a lot different of format, even probably have a feel for you than it is a little bit more intimate in a conversation like this.

Right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Way different. And different people react to those types of situations. Some people are more wired to be afraid in those situations than others. We all react to, so that fight or flight response happens.

You know, physiologically, if you get nervous about something, And I tell everybody if if you get nervous at getting up on stage and talking to a group of people, congratulations.

You're human. Because most people even the professionals we'll get nervous. I think John Lennon before they would even go up on stage.

Every single time, before he would go up on stage, he would throw up. Oh, wow. I mean, Yeah. Yeah. So even the great -- Okay. -- will admit, but there are things in tools when you're within the area of communication.

You kinda learn different tools that you can use in order to take that nervous energy and turn it into fuel. Yeah. Yeah. I've I've heard some similar points too.

Matter of fact, there's a book, it's called thank you for arguing. Are you familiar with this book? No. No. I have not read that. I'm not prepared to describe the author. I can't remember his name to save my life.

But either way, it's called thank you for arguing. And it's all write this down so I can read Oh, yeah. Check it out. It's website too actually. I think it's thank you for arguing dot com or something to that effect.

But but it's all about rhetoric. How essentially modern day pathos, ethos, and logos come into play, but from a parent's perspective to his teenage kids. And so how do you persuade? How do you get things accomplished?

When it's something simple like pick up your clothes, you know? So to your point where you're not talking at somebody, but you've gotta have some sort of mutual buy in to make something happen, whatever that something is.

Like, the ability to get across a message to any size audience, right, whether it's a business consult, a classroom of college kids, for example, and not just educate for the sake of talking or passing a test, but I assume in your case like like most teachers is to teach to inspire, to mentor, to guide.

But in doing that, I think the flip side of the coin isn't just relatability. Right? Because sometimes you gotta handle rejection or criticism or whatever.

Right? So what's your perspective on this sort of conflicting conversation or communication style? If you're talking about terms of, let's say, like, a traditional debate.

Let's say you and I just read a news article. Mhmm. And we have completely different perspectives. Of this news article. And I'll give you a great example right now.

I don't know has been reading up on everything that's been happening with Beyonce and Lizzo having to change or they didn't have to change, but they chose to change their lyrics because apparently, in the UK, the word spas is a derogatory term, you know, versus here in the United States, hear we spas.

Was jokingly. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Not meant as a derogatory term.

But we know that words mean many things to many people within many countries and even within the country within many cultures. Yeah. So, you know, there's not 1 right definition, you know, of of the word spas.

So you might read that article and say, well, you know, that's a good thing. She should have changed that lyric in there. Because if it's an ableist word, then we need to get rid of that word.

And then I might read the article and say, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. We need to slow down here. Because number 1, I am fundamentally opposed to policing others language -- Mhmm.

-- and this is why. Who are we to get all upset all up in arms as Americans, you know, and say, you know what? You should no longer use that word ever in the United Kingdom. Because over here, we find that term to be very offensive.

Yeah. Who's correct? There's not a solid answer And this, you know, leads back to when you talk about values in belief systems, you know, in in culture. There is not quote, correct answer in that. It the answer's gonna be it's a pin.

Yeah. It's relative. You know, now yeah. Yeah. It is relative. So If you get into an argument like that, that's going to be 1 of those difficult things that even if you are trying to think as logically as you can.

If you come up against someone who is thinking with their emotional side of their brain versus the logical side of the brain, That's going to be an argument that just goes around in a circle over and over and over again.

Because at the end of the day, there is no 1 correct answer. Hey, y'all.

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Folks, I'm Porter, host of the transacting value podcast. You're being personally invited to increase empathy worldwide through shared values. Hey. But why do you say it like that? That's not what we talked about.

No, it's not. Why do you call it an invitation? Look, guys, there are people around the world who have listened to our conversations with guests. And they've trusted us to build perspective over different topics through shared values.

The least we can do is invite them out to hear more of the content that they enjoy still reminding them that season 1 and season 2 of the podcast are still listed under the old name as DYT the podcast.

Friday, that makes sense, Porter. Just tell them that if they go to YouTube and search survival day and y t, they can find all the old videos and playlists.

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Even if you are trying to think as logically as you can.

If you come up against someone who is thinking with their emotional side of their brain versus the logical side of the brain, that's going to be an argument that just goes around in a circle over and over and over again.

Because at the end of the day, there is no 1 correct deal for that. So sometimes you really do have to understand that you may not necessarily get the answer that you are hoping for.

But that's okay because that's how the world is. That's how the world works. Right? We're not gonna always be able to change someone else's mind.

We're not always going to be able to win that argument especially when you're getting into situations where you're talking about things that are connected to values or beliefs or cultural system.

Yeah. Ideiological stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Now, you might be able to convince someone to see your point if you have a good enough logical argument and someone can say, well, I still disagree with you on the topic, but that was a damn good point that you have right there.

Mhmm. You know, I'm still I'm still not gonna agree with you. But then you've actually been pretty successful in persuasion. Especially, you know, with some of the hot button topics that we have.

It's a very difficult thing, you know, with your debating or if you're arguing. But at the end of the day, you really do have to take that back and think about in the grand scheme of things. Where is this argument headed?

And what is my goal for this argument? Like, do I really think that I'm gonna be able to change an entire nation into, you know, stop using a specific word? Because it happens to be offensive within my country?

In thinking in terms of a direction or a goal, for whatever you're trying to accomplish, some sort of agenda, some sort of comment, some sort of cause you're trying to lobby or or build support for, whatever, in any scale in between there.

There still has to be a mutual respect. We're where people first and then sort of, I guess, you would say, fountains of information second.

You know, whatever we end up saying is not always indicative of who we are as people. I may totally disagree with your point, pick a topic, but it doesn't change the fact we can still have a conversation.

Right? The inherent maturity, I think, in that moment, is recognizing that you still have value. Your perspective is still worth something That doesn't mean I have to agree with it or even accept it.

But I have to accept that you're a human also and you're gonna have your own opinions, perspective. Beliefs ideological considerations.

And if I'm trying this is my opinion here, if I'm trying to push my self proclaimed validation, I guess, on you to whatever degree. I'm not even asking if you care to accept it or not. I'm just saying you have to.

But in the same sentence, I'm discrediting yours. So I think, yeah, if we're talking about different types of conversations or different ways of communicating, that might be more abrasive. I think those are 2 extremes.

Right? Some sort of mutually respected debate type format, vice and argument. What about if somebody just gives you constructive criticism to help you improve or grow, or it's more abrasive, but it's not really harmful.

Well, 1 thing to remember is this agreement does not ruin relationship, but disrespect us. When we're talking about giving feedback, that is a very personal type of communication.

Let's say, for example, you know, you're in the workplace. And you're responsible for giving feedback to whoever your subordinate is. Well, there are a lot of things to consider.

You know, number 1, what are your different communication styles? Because if you don't have an understanding of If, for example, my communication style is I'm more of an action oriented type of communication style.

So I tend to be brief, I tend to like things to happen a little more quickly. Mhmm. And especially in a work setting, I like efficiency, you know, and I like action. So let's focus on what are we producing? How are we getting it right?

And if we get it wrong, let's just go ahead and figure how to fix it and move on. Sure. You know? And let's not get all emotional about it. But that can come across to someone else who is maybe process oriented.

You know, they like to take their time and think about well, let's think about pros and the cons and all of the choices that we have ahead of us and, you know, think ahead and the what ifs that could drive someone who's action oriented a little insane.

Right? Because that okay. You can have analysis paralysis. Let's move on this. Yeah. Then you have some people who are more of like the people oriented type of people. They're the cheerleaders in the organization.

You know, they're the more the emotional ones. They're the ones that you can tell that they are the people oriented people because they're the ones that everybody they'll like to go to to talk to them about their problems.

Generally, they'll listen to them, and they're not necessarily giving them advice.

They're just, you know, they're very empathic. So if somebody like me who's action oriented, I could very easily come across to someone who is more people oriented as like a bully.

For that, maybe I don't care about the individual's feelings, you know, because I just want to focus on, let's get this thing done, let's, you know, focus on the production and -- Yeah.

Yeah. -- don't have a whole lot of time. We're about feelings and all of that stuff.

So before you even get into a situation of providing feedback, you really do need to understand the other person's communication style, how they're going to perceive that message so that you can adapt that message in a way that they're going to be able to take it in Yeah.

So like how they understand or interpret you mean as well. Exactly.

How do you do that though? I'm like, I'm not a a mind reader. Like, I have no idea how you're gonna interpret something. I've never met you before. It's a first impression, let's say, job interview, you met the family in laws, whatever.

First impression. Yeah. How do you do that? Well, the thing is is if you're talking about meeting someone for the very first time, then we all know we're all on our best behavior.

Right? And a lot of times if somebody says something or they they do something that we're, like, you know, we'll raise an eyebrow and think that's kinda weird.

Most of the time, we're just like, we'll let that go because we don't know this person well enough to be able to even say anything. Right? Because we don't want to give them you know, the wrong impression.

But if you're talking about within the workplace or with your friendship or with your romantic partner, your husband, your wife, whoever it is, then if you're paying attention, you know, if you're listening to them, and you can understand what their values are, what their likes, and their dislikes are.

You really should be able to begin to read that person Because if you notice the person's communication style and that they're really good at listening and they're very empathic.

And they're that cheerleader. You know that the way they perceive information, sometimes they're even the ones that they they'll be accused of being too emotional. Or they take on too much emotion in the workplace.

You really do just have to learn how to speed read people over time. So that you can learn how to adapt your communication style to them. If you can learn to do that, then that makes the feedback process you know, that much easier.

Speed reading over time makes the process easier. Well, you have to learn Yeah. Yeah. You have to get to learn people, you know, But that means you have to pay attention.

Ah. That's the thing. You know, the the number 1 tool that anybody needs to develop in order to become an effective communicator is you have to put your ego in the back seat.

And you have to focus on the other person and you have to listen to them and pay attention to their behavior.

You know, pay attention to their emotions. Try to anticipate if this person is feeling a little frustrated, we all express our emotions in different ways. So that's how we have misperceptions.

You know, if you ask somebody, are you mad about something? Are you frustrated about something? And go, no. I'm not really. Because we're projecting how we think we might behave, you know, in a certain situation.

I see. You really do have to pay attention to the other person to learn. Okay. Paying attention in person or with more experiences or exposure to people physically.

Right? Like in in real life wherever you're at, compared to, say, digitally. Mhmm. That's a big movement now. Right? I I misinterpret text messages all the time.

I can't imagine. Oh, yeah. A multiplayer like Game or Yes. A fact of life. Yeah. Yeah. But now factor in this new lifestyle of augment in reality in this sort of hybrid industrial revolution we've got going on now.

Right? Merging technology with the real world. And, frankly, at this point, I think it's already inseparable.

What about kids, let's say, you can teach that at school, social cues, awareness, whatever, you know, you socialize kids, that's that's or people in general, that's what's happening or supposed to be, I guess.

What about in a digital environment? It's all text. Obviously, you've got headsets and you can talk too, but for the most part, you don't see people, you see cartoons or avatars.

Right. So now what? Yeah. What's what's your take on this transition? This whole concept of socializing changes.

Right? It's a huge challenge because now what we're relying on is is you can't assume that whoever is on the other side of that screen is going to understand whatever it is that you're typing or texting or emailing.

So specificity in language, that's where the language that you use is really going to have an impact on how what the other person understands.

And we can't make assumptions. So specificity in language is the first thing. And then you have to understand what the, quote, rules of online communication are.

You know, you would be really surprised at how many people don't know to not type in all caps. There are a lot of people who don't understand that, you know, a lot of people will translate that to mean why are you yelling at me?

Yeah. So those are the things just like anything else in communication, we have to be a student of it and begin to learn how the communication choices that we have.

What I mean by communication choices is we have everything from the digital communication, like we're talking social media, you know, and then text messaging, and then emailing, and then video conferencing, you know, like using Zoom, and then we have phones, and then we have the face to face type of communication.

Every single 1 of those communication choices that we make, we have to be mindful of how that particular medium is going to impact how the person who's receiving your message could impact their perception -- Mhmm.

-- of that message. It's all about being mindful. So you bring up an interesting point among all these other interesting but 1 that just stood out to me, you said being mindful, a cool trend that hasn't really died off.

I think it's just sort of been dormant or or I don't know, hibernating if concepts can do that, is as far as we've come, let's say, let's put let's pick a setting, ancient Greece, ancient Rome, ancient Rome, we're all wearing I don't know why they all seem to be white togas, but they're all white togas, and we're sitting on stone blocks.

Yeah. Like, that's where we're at having this conversation.

Right? Call it 2000 years ago. To now, you're not here in person. We're on a video call for anybody listening, and everybody listening can hear us, and they're not in the same room as either of us.

K? So that's that's 1 end of the spectrum to the other, this time shift in technology influence and whatever.

But what hasn't changed is the importance of learning how to communicate, the importance of learning rhetoric, and mindfulness, and philosophy, and understanding how people think in psychology, and sociology, and all these other ologies.

And now we how far have we really come? You know, the mediums mediums. The media has changed. But the methods really haven't. The concepts are still the same like you brought up.

Right? Talking about values, talking about the words that you use in social etiquette, and the effects that charisma or perspective or any other number of intangibles can have on what you're saying.

I think it's just such a cool idea and something that it makes me think of is then compassion or how do you how do you convey I mean what I'm saying, like honesty.

Right? How do you convey your honesty to somebody that you're not in front of? I can't read your face.

I don't know what your body's doing. I can't read your body language or or whatever else to interpret or infer, so now what? But before we get into those topics, let's take a break for a minute and we'll be back on transacting value.

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Alrighty, folks. Welcome back to transacting value. Again, my name is Porter. I'm your host, talking how to communicate what you intend to communicate, and what other people interpret around that.

With Jen Furlong from communication 24 7, the podcast. Podcast podcast. So Jen, welcome back. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. No problem. For everybody listening, what we've been talking about might seem fairly common Right?

People argue, people debate, what people say is gonna come across differently to other people, depending on their perspectives and depending or value systems, and even language and culture.

But Jan, I'm curious, the point where we left off before the break about honesty and compassion, not really being the same things, either based on interpretation or or actual influence in a sentence, what's your take on that?

Because I think they're underrated in today's sort of lexicon. Mhmm. But I think they're severely undervalued for the -- Right.

-- weight they can care. So when we're talking honesty and compassion, how are they different in your opinion? Well, the interesting thing is, you know, let's let's look at the 2 words that we're talking about anyway.

You know, number 1, we talk about compassion. That right there is such a subjective term to begin with because what 1 person may view as a compassionate choice.

Another person could view as a very selfish choice or maybe a very harsh choice. So therein lies, again, you know, with language and interpretation, that introduces a whole host of issues right there to begin with, you know?

So so how do we look at compassion? Now if we're talking about compassion in terms of, let's say, we're in an argument, but there's different ways as a communicator, you know, I can choose to show compassion.

For number 1, I can choose to allow you the space that you need in order to continue explaining whatever it is that you're trying to explain, you know, on the topic.

That's a very difficult thing to do sometimes, though, when you're arguing about something, especially when passionate about whatever it is that you're talking about.

You know, it's very easy for the human animal. We are very egocentric creatures.

And so and and we do tend to become very self centered when it comes to conflict because we're so worried about making sure that our point is heard, sometimes we forget that, wait a minute, you will have your time.

If you can make sure that you have your time. Patience. Yeah. But we also need to understand, give the space, allow the space and the time you know, for someone else to express what it is that they they need to express.

Also, compassion can look like as you are making your voice heard, and as you're making your point, I can sit here and acknowledge how it's impacting my emotions because I'm very well aware that my emotions are going to have an impact on how I might respond or how I might communicate.

The words that I might choose to use, my body language.

So acknowledging how it's how it's impacting my emotions, while at same time acknowledging how it's impacting or how your emotions are impacting, how you're communicating. You know?

Because we all know that there are those people who will get into an argument list. And they, you know, they might have the tendency to say something that they don't necessarily mean. Extroverts, by the way, are very good at that.

If you're an introvert, you tend to think before you speak most of the time. But the extroverts really, you know, they're the ones who tend to, like, blurred out something especially if they're angry or emotional.

Yeah. And then later on, they'll be like, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that. But if you understand that as as a communicator. Right? You understand that, okay, this person does tend to work out things when they get overly emotional.

Because I know that, I can show some compassion right now. I can stop. I'm not gonna interrupt. I'm just gonna let them go. Because I know at the end of the day, they're gonna end up apologizing for that anyway.

So I'm not gonna allow that to have power over my emotions. So there are a lot of different ways that we can express, you know, compassion, where it relates to honesty.

Again, you know, this is up for debate, but you can be honest and you can be direct you know, and some would argue that by being honest and direct, you are being compassionate.

Right. Because you're not layering an entire, you know, thing of of BS on top of everything that what it is that you're trying to say. Yeah. Others might argue, well, no, no, you know, we can say things in a way that it's not hurtful.

It's not harmful. If you are engaged in an argument And both of you feel very strongly about this topic, and both of you have very strong opinions about this topic. You know what? There's a good chance that somebody's feeling -- Mhmm.

-- we're gonna get hurt. So we have to be really mindful when we talk about, you know, these words of compassion and honesty and whether or not, you know, they can work together or they can't work together.

Honestly is always going to be the best policy. You want to be direct, but we can be direct in a way that it will encourage the other person to continue listening to what it is.

That we wanna say. You know, for example, if you focus on you language -- Mhmm. -- like, you don't make any sense. But immediately puts the other person on the defensive.

Right? Sure. Yeah. You're you don't make any sense versus I'm not understanding what it is that you're you're saying right now. Can you rephrase that, or can you explain that to me again? That takes the pressure off of the other person.

You know? So instead of being defensive, I'm taking responsibility for that communication right there. It's not that you aren't being clear. It's that I'm not understanding right now. So let's kind of talk about this.

That's just an example of the compassionate part of that is, okay, I'm taking the responsibility for trying to understand what it is that you're saying. While at the same time, I'm you know, I am being honest in that.

We're having a miscommunication right here. I agree. Yeah. While we're talking pronouns, what's your take on we? You know, like, not as a I'm referring to a singular person collectively type royal we.

Right? But like Right. In an argument in this context. Instead of -- Yeah. -- you should have done this, you didn't do this, your son did these things. I'm not I DECY THAT. We're clearly not communicating well right now.

We need to take a break, right, using we and does do you find or have you found that reinforcing some sort of don't know, common point of reference for the sake of unity helps heal some sort of division.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It absolutely does help create, you know, that you're you're identifying with 1 another.

And you're not laying the entire blame on the other person and you are saying, you know, if you are using language like we, you know, you are letting them know you're indicating to them, like, look, we're a team here.

Yeah. And regardless of what it is that you're arguing with arguing about, you know, there's some things that we have to be reminded of throughout the argument.

You know, like, number 1, we're sharing the same goal here. If we are trying to get from point a to point b, there might be a thousand different ways to get from point a to point b.

Mhmm. And that might be where we're disagreeing. But we both agree that we're we're still trying to get to point b. You know? So let's remember that.

Let's that needs to be the focal point. Let's not let's not get lost in the weeds. And then also, you know, understanding the rules of engagement. Mhmm. This is a lot of people don't have this important conversation.

You know, what we have to teach others how to treat us. We have to. That's our responsibility. We have to teach others how to treat Nobody is going to be able to take advantage of you unless you continue to allow that.

Right? We give others permission to do If you're in any type of a long term relationship, you know you're going to get into an argument at some point, because hello, humans. If we suck sometimes. Right?

We threw up. But, yeah, we all piss each other off. So the thing is if you do end up in an argument, it is not the end of the world, As a matter of fact, sometimes you have to have conflict to get to the good stuff on the other side.

So it's not always the right answer to just avoid something. You're giving that person permission to continue doing whatever it is that pissing you off.

Yep. And, frankly, it's unfair to them. If they're doing something that's continuing to piss you off and you don't let them know, you can't get mad at them for continuing to do it because you have not said anything about it.

Yeah. The rules of engagement, you know, what are our boundaries, what are some of the things that we agree, focusing on the the the long term goals, agreeing that they calling is, you know, unacceptable under any circumstances.

You know, those are the kind of things that you talk about establishing those rules of engagement.

And then also, well, what happens if 1 of us breaks the rules? What happens if 1 of us goes too far? Maybe we have a safe word. Yeah. So, like, you know, it's like, when I you hear me say water.

An apple. Yes. You hear me say water. Yeah. Whatever. Then, you know, I'm I'm at that point, I need to have a break. Yeah. And so we have to honor that, you know, in 1 another.

So that's what I need by rules of engaged You have to have an agreement on how we go about having conflict because that right there could be the 1 thing that in long term relationships that can help you continue to understand that this is a perfectly natural process in any long term relationship.

I think that's part of the problem we're running into now, not to zoom out and get political, but it's the same parallel in my opinion.

Right? What happens between 2 individuals happens between 2 nation states because they're comprised of individuals.

Any 2 nation states mind you for anybody listening, but, you know, attribute this to where you want. But you know, to say that these are the boundaries. This is what it means to respect my validity, my authority, my fill in the blank.

And if you infringe on those boundaries, that's what this means. We're not friends anymore because you're a meanie, all the way up to we're not gonna do business together.

Because, you know, you're you're embezzling money or or whatever, anything in between and then some. I think the problem comes in when that line gets crossed, once you establish the boundary, that's the boundary.

Otherwise, that's the warning. Even in war for any for anybody listening or any sort of military conflict, among most nations now, there's what's called the land law of war.

And essentially what that establishes is your boundaries for should a war or a conflict arise, this is what all parties will generally speaking abide by.

Human rights abuses during a war become classified as war crimes because the boundaries within the war on land have been infringed. And you violated those boundaries.

Right? Right? Well, it's setting the same parameters with people as I'm understanding what you're saying. Right, Jen? We have to treat others how we want them to treat us. We have to teach them how to treat us.

I think is what you said. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. And I think it's the same thing, but the problem comes in. Once you let it slide, like any other abusive relationship, it's going to continue until you make it stop.

Well, there's there's An important thing that I want to backtrack just a little bit to emphasize an important point when we're talking about our closest relationships are important relationships -- Sure.

-- where conflict is concerned. Sometimes we have to step back and take a bird's eye view.

Of what's happening, you know, and and why we're having this conflict. There are 2 questions. You know, let's say someone you're very close to, they overstep the boundaries. You know, they hurt you in some way.

Sure. You know, there's something and and now you have a decision to make. Regarding that relationship. The first question you really should ask yourself is is what this person did, is that in their character?

Or is that out of character for them? Is this something that is common for them to do? Or is this something that it was out of character?

You know? Because it could be that maybe something happened and it caused them to act in a way that they would not normally act. If you can answer that question and you understand that, you know, that really is not who he is.

Or that's not really within her character. I know her. Then that gives you some room to be able to apply the second thing, you know, within communication. We we call it grace.

You know? And sometimes, in a relationship, you make a decision whether or not you want to extend grace to that other person. Even if they don't necessarily deserve it, But for you, you know, you have to make that decision.

I'm gonna extend this grace because I know that even though that was out of line and you should not have said that, you know, that was really hurtful. But I know that there's some other things going on that's not within your character.

So I'm gonna I'm gonna extend that grace. I'm gonna forgive that for the sake of the relationship, because I know that was kinda like a weird thing that happened.

So those are the 2 things. That you really do have to consider in a relationship that is very important to you when conflict does arise.

Well, yeah. I mean, that's basically the the same role I think encompassing those 2 questions to to ask yourself that respect and to see have in communicating as well.

And I think that's 1 point where you and I are gonna overlap pretty heavily because -- Mhmm. -- you know, respecting almost the integrity of somebody else's character. Is it in their nature?

Is it out of character? Right? You've got to give somebody enough validity, respect them as an individual enough -- Right. -- to evaluate them as their own person, not a victim of circumstance in the moment, so to speak.

Yeah. That definitely counts for a lot. What we're talking about values though, that basically brings us out to our newest and final segment. It's called developing character. Developing character.

It's 3 questions. It's all about you. Are you ready? I think so. I'm a little nervous now, but let's do it. No. That's alright. So here's how it works. This is 3 questions and it's past present and future. Those are the themes.

K? So question number 1, answer however you like to whatever extent you feel comfortable. Question number 1, you now, how do you view your value system that you had 20 years ago? My value system from 20 years ago. Or how do you qualify?

That Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really great question. And I think it's That actually is a difficult 1 for me to answer because, you know, I didn't really have a very solid foundation growing up. I come from a broken home.

There was a lot of alcoholism and drug abuse and violence in the home. And so I had a really rocky foundation and I learned very quickly that I had to be the adult. Mhmm. Even though I was surrounded by adults, I had to be the adult.

And so I think in the past, 1 of my values is I I very much felt that I had to be responsible for everything -- Oh, yeah. -- that happened around me. Because I think you know, I was somewhat forced into that position.

So I carried a heavy burden with me. So I think 1 of my values And it probably was not a healthy value, you know, that I adopted, was that overbearing sense of responsibility for everyone and everything that was happening around me.

And not understanding that there are things that are not within your control, you know, and that you cannot beat yourself up over that. Yeah. So I think that's probably a past value that I have definitely learned to outgrow.

Well, that's good. Well, so then let's let's roll them now then. So question 2 at present, what are some of your values now that you prefer to try to exemplify?

My values now, I really do have a very strong sense of integrity over the course of the past, you know, 30 years from graduating high school to today.

I like to think that I have remained at the core you know, my sense of wanting to take responsibility for my own trajectory, you know, versus worrying about what everybody else is doing and how that has impacted me.

I have learned that I am responsible for my successes and my sales And I think that began, you know, right out of high school when I made the decision to go to boot camp join the marine corps because there was not 1 person who supported me in that.

Oh. There's not 1 person who thought I could do it. Everybody was like, have you lost your damn mind? Like, what are you thinking It's tough.

Going through that experience helped solidify for me. Look, I gotta do things that that I believe in. That are important to me, you know, that I know it's going to be an experience that's going to help me in the future.

You know? So I I value sticking the thing. You know? When you make a decision, see it through, and if if it gets uncomfortable, if it gets difficult, you know, that's when you dig in you know, even deeper.

Yeah. And so and as a result of that, you know, I ended up graduating in the honor platoon. And then, you know, some other things happened after that.

And it was kinda like that help reveal to me who I am today, you know, that inner strength and that inner willingness to kinda just go the extra mile and dig in, I very much value that, you know, that stick to itiveness, building that strength you know, I very much admire and gravitate toward people that I think are strong characters.

Even if I disagree with them, I admire them. Yeah. Because of that sense of strength that they have, that strength of character that they have.

Sure. Well, while we're talking what that means for the future, question number 3 then. How do you view your value system changing over the next 20 years?

I'm actually, you know, the funny thing about that question is I can feel something transitioning now, especially since I started my own business. People will often misinterpret my ability to listen to them as empathy.

Like, oh, Jim, you're the most empathic person I've ever met. You know, like, you're so compassionate. You have a lot of empathy for others. The thing is is, like, empathy is actually really low on my scale history.

I I lose my temper. I I get frustrated a lot, especially if you come at me with, you know, a problem, like, 20 times in a row. I get I I kinda lose it. But I am beginning to learn to develop that softer side -- Uh-huh.

-- of myself and to be more accepting of others, you know, if they if they don't necessarily meet the standards, you know, that I set for myself or, you know, the expectations, I I am learning to be more accepting of that.

So I think that's the value that is beginning -- Yeah.

-- you know, to to kinda develop for me. So my hope is you know, 20 years from now that so maybe I will see that person that can have a nice balance of, okay, this is what you gotta do.

You know, and kind of be that person that's focused on achieving things versus also being that person that can have compassion for myself as well as others.

You know? To kinda give people some leeway. Yeah. At least I hope that's the projector I'm going to because there's nothing wrong with being compassionate.

No. No. Not wrong with being emphatic. No. Not at all. You know, every are not as natural to you know, it's not as natural to some of us as others. Yeah.

That's that's a fact too. You know, every tall tree has to give a little as it grew, you know. Yeah. That's that's just as as natural, I guess, as conflict, you know, no no tree started from an acorn that didn't crack under stress.

So Right. Yeah. That's Yeah. You know, that that's just how it goes and I guess sort of exemplified in the human condition too.

So I really do appreciate you making some time to come on to the podcast and talk for a little bit and just have an opportunity to get your perspective out there, spending all this time talking with other people.

I'm really glad we had an opportunity to hear from you about you. So thank you. No. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. No problem. Now, if anybody wants to reach out to you, if they find out more about communication 24 7, your business or your podcast, or you, what are some options?

How do people get to you? How do they find more of this information? Lots of different ways, of course, through my website, WWW dot communications 24 7 dot com. And it's all spelled out. It's not the numbers. It's all spelled out.

I'm also on LinkedIn. I use LinkedIn more than any other social media platform. So if you're on LinkedIn, you can find me there. I'm also on Facebook. So if you look up Jennifer Arvin Furlong, you know, you can follow me on Facebook.

So just reach out. Yeah. If you ever have any question, I I do give 30 minutes free consultation for anybody who is, you know, hoping to get any type of communication skills.

Development training. I'm also a TEDx coach, you know, in addition to a TEDx speaker. So I've helped people try to develop, you know, narrow down their topic choices and get them up on that stage.

So if you're curious about that, I am more than happy to help you out. And then, you know, also just look up communication 24 7 podcast. It's on all of the major podcast platforms.

I'm out there. You can find me. Yeah. That'd be perfect. And I I saw just recently, I think it was 5000 downloads. I just have 6500. Yeah. Wow. Congratulations. Today as a matter of fact. Yeah. I got that notification. Yeah.

So now is it if we can get that translate, you know, to, like, some some dollars. Yeah. Yeah. Right? That's the dream. Right? Yeah. Well, that's how it goes, you know. But there's never been a a watering hole that starts with animals.

You know? There there's gotta be a decent path to get to it and a safe enough crowd around it, and then animals show up in South Africa. It's a start. It's a start. Yeah.

Yeah. But anyway, I don't wanna take up your evening. Again, I appreciate it, so thank you. RIGHT THANK YOU. Reporter: YOU'RE WELCOME. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING INTO OUR COURT VALUES FOR THE MONTH OF August, GENERALOSITY JUSTICE IN TAKED.

Thank you, of course, to communication 24 7, and Jay Heinrich's author of Thank you for arguing for your inspiration and or show partner's Keystone Farmers Market to be in the bear creations, and anchor for your distribution.

If you're interested in joining our conversation or want to discover our other interviews, Check out transactingvalue podcast dot com.

And remember, you can follow along on social media too, while continue to stream new interviews every Monday at 9AM Eastern Standard Time. On all of your favorite podcasting platforms. Until next time, that was transacting value.