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Finding Love After Trauma with Dana Nygaard
Finding Love After Trauma with Dana Nygaard

Become a Global Ambassador for Self-Worth. Text us your feedback! What defines your self-worth after experiencing domestic abuse? How do you recognize the red flags in potential partners when your sense of normal has been warped by past trauma? Licensed Professional Counselor Dana Nygaard takes us on a powerful journey through these questions in this deeply personal and practical conversation. "Good guys don't call you names. That's not what good men do." (16:20) https://www.wreathsacr...

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Season 6

Become a Global Ambassador for Self-Worth. Text us your feedback!

What defines your self-worth after experiencing domestic abuse? How do you recognize the red flags in potential partners when your sense of normal has been warped by past trauma? Licensed Professional Counselor Dana Nygaard takes us on a powerful journey through these questions in this deeply personal and practical conversation.

 "Good guys don't call you names. That's not what good men do."

(16:20) https://www.wreathsacrossamerica.org/Newsroom/WreathsAcrossAmericaRadio

(26:37) https://porthouse.kw.com/

(38:19) https://www.transactingvaluepodcast.com/life-after-30-years-of-military-service-with-sarah-williams/

Purchase Dana's book 365 Dates to Renew Your Christian Marriage - Catholic Edition: Increasing Your Emotional Intimacy One Question at a Time here: https://www.amazon.com/Dates-Renew-Your-Christian-Marriage/dp/1736683802

Support the show

Looking for more perspective, empowerment, and self-worth?

For a chance to hear your question answered on the air, remember to Subscribe and Leave a Voice Message at TransactingValuePodcast.com!

We'll meet you there.


An SDYT Media Production I Deviate from the Norm

All rights reserved. 2021

00:00 - Introduction to Transacting Value

01:29 - Meet Dana Nygaard: Relationship Coach

05:39 - From Teaching to Therapy

14:27 - Recognizing Abuse Patterns

29:25 - Living in Reality vs. Fantasy

39:05 - Developing Character: Values Discussion

51:55 - Directive Therapy Approach

54:23 - Resources and Closing Thoughts

WEBVTT

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The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast host and guest and do not necessarily represent those of our distribution partners, supporting business relationships or supported audience.

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Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for instigating self-worth when dealing with each other and even within ourselves, where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries, fostering community and finding identity.

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My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are redefining sovereignty of character.

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This is why values still hold value.

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This is Transacting Value.

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Part of this is not settling and the person's going to be human and to be a healthy human being, you have to know you have weaknesses and you're going to make mistakes.

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So it's not asking someone to be perfect, but they need to be the perfect person for you.

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Today on Transacting Value.

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How do you describe, how do you identify who you are and who you become and your worth, especially when the place you come from involves abuse domestically, verbally, maybe even physically or in any other relationship?

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Today's guest we're talking with licensed professional counselor and relationship coach, dana Nygaard.

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All about where women can get free help and go from miss to missus.

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Here today on the show, I'm Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and from SDYT Media.

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This is Transacting Value, dana.

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How are you doing?

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Great.

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How are you today?

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I'm doing well, thank you.

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I appreciate you making time out of your schedule, by the way, to come talk.

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I know you've got clients and a life and everything else, so thank you first off.

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Thank you.

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I want to thank you for having this platform.

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Yeah Well, I appreciate you saying that too.

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It's, and it's interesting, you know, talking to people I think we're creeping pretty closely to around 200 or so on the show.

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Incredible, all about self-worth and value systems.

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And one thing I hadn't really considered to this point, I guess, cause most of my perspective is rooted in occupational changes to, you know, roles and identity and worth and values I hadn't really ever considered in the context of a relationship, or even an abusive one, but as a consideration, marriage, which is your whole focus, right?

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Yes, because that's the desired role that these women feel that God has placed upon their heart.

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And they're looking around, thinking either where are the men?

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No one's asked me out.

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Or they're thinking why do I keep attracting these unhealthy men or nice men, but they're just not the right guy for me and they're lonely.

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And then time is ticking and they want to have babies most of them and they're starting to freak out about that and they want to find true, deep, abiding love.

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Yeah, and now I also for the record.

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I understand your primary clientele is all female or mostly women, All.

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For relationship coaching all female.

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For my private practice, which is only in Texas, it's individuals.

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It can be male or females and couples also.

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Okay, all right, cool.

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So then, I think what might be interesting in this conversation too, is I'm going to pick your brain a little bit from a male perspective, as it applies to some of these marriage considerations as well.

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But for right now, since we're just getting started out, for anybody who's tuning into the conversation or watching it here and doesn't know you what we're talking about or what you talk about, let's just take a couple minutes.

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Who are you, where are you from, and what sort of things are shaping your perspective on life as these matters are applied?

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Well, I'm a fifth generation Texan and I taught school.

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I'm very proud of that.

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My son is a sixth generation and the seventh generation I hope and pray are also born in the States.

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We can continue that legacy.

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I taught high school, secondary education for 16 years before transitioning into going back to grad school, while working full-time, while dealing with breast cancer and that was my second time to have cancer.

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So, thank you Lord, I'm still here today yeah, it's pretty incredible and becoming a licensed professional counselor, and I'm a mom of one.

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So we have a son who is 30 and I have the most delightful husband, david.

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Anyone who knows my husband they actually sigh and tilt their head At least the women do.

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They go David, because he's just so precious and delightful and makes me laugh, and he is the salve to the wounds of my past, of my childhood, of being married before.

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Wow, what a compliment that is.

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He's amazing.

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Thank you Lord.

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I'm so grateful for him and he's grateful for me and I appreciate that.

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I'm always thinking like, what would I do without this wonderful man?

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That is, I think, a gift from God.

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He has a servant's heart.

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He really does.

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It takes a lot to rile him and I'm the spicy, feisty one and he's that, you know, calm, you know poured in the storm.

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He's just amazing.

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Wow, well, dave, congratulations, yeah, yeah, now okay.

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So all of these things, I assume came from somewhere.

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You didn't just stop teaching high school and you're like I'm tired of the high school pregnancies and mismanaged relationships, let me make it a career.

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So what led to all of this?

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Well, I kept having parents come to me because I was a psychology teacher.

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I taught a little US history.

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I began my teaching career teaching English as a second language.

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But the whole reason why I went into teaching and how I ended my teaching career was high school psychology.

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So I taught regular level, advanced placement and then the two levels of international baccalaureate.

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And so by the time these kids graduated at least the IB students they were almost little mini therapists themselves.

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And their parents would come to me and say this is what my daughter is doing, she's in her head about, like you know, she's a swimmer.

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She's in her head suddenly she's losing races, what do I do?

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And I would look at them like I don't know, I'm just a psychology teacher.

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And they wouldn't leave.

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And so I'd open up the book and I'd say this is what the book says about sports psychology.

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Here's an idea.

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And the parents, they apparently they all talked, because they all started coming to me and they said it worked.

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And I thought, ok, I can now apply this to a deeper level.

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Now I am very proud that I have many former students.

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They're all grown and out of school now because I'm getting old and I have a lot of psychologists and psychiatrists that came from my program.

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So it was very exciting and I just came home to my husband and said I want to go to grad school and we were newlyweds at the time and he said what do I need to do to make this happen?

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And our son was in a high school but we had to drive about 30 minutes away.

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It was a private Catholic school and so my husband, just he dove in deep and just the best stepfather ever and he took our son back and forth and cooked meals and sat there with me when I cried over how am I going to get this paper written in this little amount of time?

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Post-grade, all my students' essays and you know it was a lot, but it's one of the best decisions, besides having my son and marrying my husband, that I've ever made in my life is to go through the grind of becoming an LPC, because it's roughly five years from beginning to end.

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Once you get your, you go through the national testing you have to pass, you have to get 3000 postgraduate hours before you are fully licensed.

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So it's five years of a really tough grind with no money coming in and money just going out.

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And my husband said I'm all, I'm all in for it, but it's still one of the best things I've ever done.

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Well, he does sound delightful.

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It's amazing.

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That's crazy and so okay, talking through well, 3000 hours plus of of therapy with clients I assume couples and individuals.

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It depends on how you, how you want to go about it.

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As long as you have 1,500 face-to-face with people and the other 1,500 can be more trainings, your paperwork, your books you're reading, but even 1,500 hours, it takes roughly 18 months for most people.

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Okay, yeah, so that is a sizable amount of time, and you decided to focus all of it on abuse victims.

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No, it's interesting Once I got through my training and did work with abuse victims because I worked at the amazing, magnificent Children's Advocacy Center of Collin County.

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It's one of the premier advocacy centers in the US.

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So everyone like the things you heard on TV.

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Be like what happened to this little four-year-old, what happened to this family of an eight nine-year-old?

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What did a coach do?

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Those are the kids we got.

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Then we also worked with their parents, because now you're the parent of a kid who maybe was abused by someone in your family.

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Why didn't you notice the creepy neighbor was there.

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Maybe it's not your fault, but then how do they deal with that?

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And a lot of the parents also came from a history of being abused in different ways, and so I did start off my career that way.

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But in my private practice it was interesting when couples come to me.

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A lot of couples come because they just want they love each other and they just want to improve their connection.

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They want to deepen that emotional intimacy.

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I actually wrote a book on that very topic with over a thousand questions to deepen that connection.

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However, that was this many people, most of them that came one of the spouses in my personal experience I don't mean this is statistically what it is, but in my practice, where the husband is a narcissist and then the single women come to me and say, hey, I'm dating, you know, john Doe, and here's what John said today I'd be like, oh, that's a lovely, that sounds nice check.

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And then they say, but then he did this.

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And I'd be like, okay, that would actually fall under abuse and they would immediately push back.

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And it was like, okay, that would actually fall under abuse and they would immediately push back.

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And it was like they had all read the same script.

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What's an example?

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What do you?

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mean.

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So an example would be he said that he has been sober from pornography for so long, a certain amount of time, and then the other day the topic came up somehow and I could tell from his face something was going wrong there.

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And when I pushed a little bit, sure enough, that was never true.

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I've never been sober.

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I've lied to you every time you've checked in with me.

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Hey, still checking, you're making sure things are good.

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Ok, I've lied to you every time.

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Or let's say, the man does the typical gentlemanly things open car door, stands up for a woman when she enters and leaves the room, okay, all those beautiful things.

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And then they'll say, almost as a side note until I was late the other day not my fault, I'm never late.

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Traffic, it was on the news.

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I was 10 minutes late.

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I even let him know what was happening and he screamed at me for 20 minutes and then he called me a blankety blank.

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He said what word?

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The B word, the C word?

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What happened?

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And they would say well, we worked through it.

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Okay, help me to understand.

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What do you mean?

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You worked through it and they would look at me like we worked it.

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Okay.

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He said blankety blank to you.

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Then you said because I have, we got to break it down.

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They have to see it.

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If I just tell them, you know, shake my finger like I used to be a teacher.

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Um, that's not healthy.

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You need to break up with him, that's not going to work.

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They have to get it on their own right.

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And so I would say okay, he called you a blank.

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What did you say?

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You may not call me that, no one will call me that name.

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And then what happened?

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We went and got pizza.

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Okay, that's not working through it.

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Has he done it again?

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Yeah, well, I thought you said before that you told him you wouldn't put up with that.

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Well, I mean, I did Like I told him and they'll get real serious.

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Like I told him you wouldn't put up with that.

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Well, I mean, I did like I told him and they'll get real serious.

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Like I told him, you can't do that but they all have email, right?

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yeah, it's just it's, it's, it's so sad.

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And the other thing that they say often and it's again, it's like they almost all read from the same script is, once I point out that that's abusive emotional, verbal, whatever it is physical, they'll they'll usually drop their head because they're very ashamed and they'll say I feel so bad right now.

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He's a really good guy and I'm giving you the wrong impression.

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And so I have to disavow them of that.

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And I have these two French doors in my therapy office and what I'll do is I'll say, okay, let's pretend I have imaginary post-it notes.

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So on, this one brings you flowers.

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We're going to put it on the good behavior side, and I don't even say bad behavior, I say you know, like the not so good side, because I don't want it to get all you know them getting upset.

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Where do I put he called you a blank, where does that one go?

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And they just stare.

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They know the answer.

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But it's that cognitive bias, right?

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Or the confirmation bias where they're thinking good guys bring flowers.

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Good guys, you know, say I'm pretty Okay, but good guys, don't call you a blank.

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That's not what good men do.

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My husband doesn't even say that, like, let's say, the waitress is the worst server we've ever had.

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She has a terrible attitude and is beyond rude.

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My husband is not going to call her a five-letter word for a female dog.

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He's just it's not, it's not part of our life.

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And it's amazing how they'll say oh yeah, he calls other people that, but not me, sweetie.

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If he calls other people that, you're going to be on the receiving end at some point.

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I promise you that's what's going to happen.

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Yeah, and I want there to be less abuse, less needless suffering.

00:14:16.629 --> 00:14:17.720
There's enough suffering that happens in life anyway.

00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:23.192
You know acts of God, tornadoes, cancer, car wrecks.

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We don't need to invite in more.

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And if they had better self-confidence they wouldn't accept it, and I'm living proof of it.

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I used to accept that and my husband will say to me he'll be like okay.

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I know all the stories are true.

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I've met most of the players in this story.

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He said but I just can't picture you accepting that.

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He's like I wouldn't have lasted a day and a half.

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I'm like, dude, you wouldn't have lasted a minute.

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Because I got to the point where I finally told myself this is what I've done in the past.

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I'm the cognitive.

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I mean not the cognitive, I'm the common denominator here.

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So, huh, I have to have a part in this.

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What's my responsibility?

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I keep inviting those people in my life.

00:15:05.265 --> 00:15:10.090
So now, when I'm going to date again, I need to heal that before I get out there.

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And so I did a deep dive for 90 days into healing an insecure attachment to secure, because I know it takes the brain 90 days to really make a change through neuroplasticity.

00:15:22.748 --> 00:15:27.323
And I dove into it, just like I did math classes in college and grad school.

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I took them in the summer no history, no English, nothing else.

00:15:31.133 --> 00:15:33.725
So I could live, eat and breathe the math.

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So it's all I could think about.

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So I could do better at it.

00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:39.884
And that's how I survived math classes, because they're not.

00:15:39.884 --> 00:15:42.850
They're very hard for me Even with all the effort.

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It's like I got a C and that was like an A, but I put in.

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A-level effort, and so I thought okay, if it works in that way, let's see if it works in this way.

00:15:54.049 --> 00:16:00.032
And it does, because if I now take an attachment quiz, it always comes out as secure.

00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:03.488
Alrighty, folks sit tight, we'll be right back.

00:16:03.488 --> 00:16:07.163
On Transacting Value All righty, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:16:20.091 --> 00:16:21.998
Listen in on iHeartRadio Odyssey and TuneIn.

00:16:21.998 --> 00:16:24.505
And so I thought OK, if it works in that way, let's see if it works in this way.

00:16:24.505 --> 00:16:30.471
And it does, because if I now take an attachment quiz, it always comes out as secure.

00:16:32.282 --> 00:16:34.533
Well, congratulations, thank you, thank you.

00:16:35.136 --> 00:16:39.984
Yeah, absolutely, it's incredible because God is a good and generous God, and I did my hard work too.

00:16:41.027 --> 00:16:43.184
Yeah, well, okay, so that's something else as well.

00:16:43.184 --> 00:16:53.352
Right, there's something to be said for having to actually go through some sort of a grind and just deal with whatever happens to appreciate what comes next.

00:16:53.352 --> 00:17:15.404
That's right, because you can't I don't think you can actually have that degree of gratitude without some degree of sacrifice first or suffrage first, but saying that how do you, or how did you or how do you recommend identifying or maybe qualifying your tolerance and then identifying your threshold, because you've got to have some allowance for it, but there's a line.

00:17:16.247 --> 00:17:17.048
There has to be a line.

00:17:17.048 --> 00:17:18.632
Exactly so it's.

00:17:18.632 --> 00:17:20.163
You know what are your.

00:17:20.163 --> 00:17:23.558
I asked someone like what are the top five qualities you want in a man?

00:17:23.558 --> 00:17:31.702
Because some women will have this exhaustive list and I'm like girl, if we applied the female version to you, would you be all those things?

00:17:31.702 --> 00:17:32.345
No.

00:17:32.424 --> 00:17:35.451
I've never had one woman ever say yes, I am all those things.

00:17:35.451 --> 00:17:36.882
Never, not once.

00:17:36.882 --> 00:17:39.305
Okay, so let's not get crazy here, right?

00:17:39.305 --> 00:17:40.807
But what are your top five?

00:17:40.807 --> 00:17:45.394
Because one of my top five was I wanted a husband that was funny.

00:17:45.394 --> 00:17:48.544
I don't mean a bada bing, bada boom, he's a comedian.

00:17:48.544 --> 00:17:58.861
My husband is not a comedian but he makes me laugh and so when he makes me laugh, sometimes it's like I'll burst out laughing or a chuckle or take my brain a second.

00:17:58.861 --> 00:18:01.766
I'll be like babe, like that was a, that was a good one.

00:18:01.766 --> 00:18:05.553
I go top five knowing he just hit the ding, ding, ding.

00:18:05.553 --> 00:18:06.114
My top five.

00:18:06.114 --> 00:18:10.166
So what if I chose a man and I married him?

00:18:10.166 --> 00:18:15.805
We're 20 years in the marriage and he never makes me laugh, and yet that was important to me.

00:18:15.805 --> 00:18:16.968
What's going to happen?

00:18:16.968 --> 00:18:21.086
I'm going to wake up one day, look over in bed and think why did I do this?

00:18:21.086 --> 00:18:23.369
Well, he's a really great handyman.

00:18:23.369 --> 00:18:28.326
Now, my husband is a really great handyman, but let's pretend that wasn't one of his gifts.

00:18:28.326 --> 00:18:30.852
Well, okay, I could hire a handyman.

00:18:30.852 --> 00:18:36.048
So if I wanted a handyman so badly, why didn't I have that on my list of top five?

00:18:36.891 --> 00:18:44.070
So part of this is not settling and the person's going to be human and to be a healthy human being.

00:18:44.070 --> 00:18:52.368
You have to know you have weaknesses, you have areas in your life that you're not going to be great at and you're going to make mistakes.

00:18:52.368 --> 00:18:58.113
So it's not asking someone to be perfect, but they need to be the perfect person for you.

00:18:58.113 --> 00:19:18.088
And so one of the things I told my husband when we got very serious about dating and I could trust him, I said the first time I ever see you drunk will be the last time You'll never see me again Because I'm not having that in my life.

00:19:18.088 --> 00:19:20.594
I did not come from a home, but that was a problem.

00:19:20.594 --> 00:19:32.500
There were other issues, but that was a problem when I was married before and it was sneaky and things that I just was naive and I just had no idea and so I'll never put up with that again.

00:19:32.580 --> 00:19:34.184
And I said the thing about the B word.

00:19:34.184 --> 00:19:43.492
I said and again, by then I knew his character I would not recommend that someone on the first date before you really are able to trust them.

00:19:43.492 --> 00:19:47.140
You know, show your hand and let them know.

00:19:47.140 --> 00:19:53.863
Oh, this is what I want you to do, because the manipulator which okay, on a good day is 4% of the population.

00:19:53.863 --> 00:19:58.912
I think it's much closer to 10%, maybe even higher.

00:19:58.912 --> 00:20:10.250
In our current society there's so much evil in the world now because it's so easy to transmit information when in the past, evil may be in this little village, but it can only get so far.

00:20:10.250 --> 00:20:15.832
Now, in the blink of an eye, it can just go everywhere.

00:20:15.832 --> 00:20:34.170
And so I let him know I never want to hear the B word from your mouth and it's not like he said it, it was just something would come up about that topic and he's like I've never said I know you, I've never heard you say it, but I don't ever want to hear that oh, she's such a, it's just such a degrading term.

00:20:34.790 --> 00:20:37.665
And so there are certain things that in the past I put up with.

00:20:37.665 --> 00:20:43.684
The number one sign of that you were getting into an abusive relationship, and I ignored it.

00:20:43.684 --> 00:20:48.881
My past was unwarranted jealousy, and it can go both directions For me.

00:20:48.881 --> 00:20:50.386
Obviously it was with a man.

00:20:50.386 --> 00:20:53.646
But to be able to say why are you dressed that way?

00:20:53.646 --> 00:20:55.913
What do you mean?

00:20:55.913 --> 00:20:59.520
I, I've worn this in front of you Like we're going to church.

00:20:59.520 --> 00:21:00.343
What do you mean?

00:21:00.343 --> 00:21:01.473
I'm not dressed inappropriately?

00:21:01.473 --> 00:21:02.818
Who are you trying to impress?

00:21:04.806 --> 00:21:14.211
And the story that truly happened to me was I got stonewalling where there's just that like acting like I didn't exist and wouldn't respond to me.

00:21:14.211 --> 00:21:17.977
And then we go to to me this is my former husband, we were dating.

00:21:17.977 --> 00:21:19.798
And then we go to to meet his parents to we were dating.

00:21:19.798 --> 00:21:25.346
And then we go to meet his parents to go to a thing, and so I don't have time to say like what's happening?

00:21:25.346 --> 00:21:33.018
And I didn't have enough wherewithal to understand that he was stonewalling me at the moment.

00:21:33.018 --> 00:21:35.549
I knew it, but I didn't know enough to say get away from this man.

00:21:35.549 --> 00:21:51.942
And later, when he finally tells me because again he has to Lord it over me that there's something wrong, I've done something, and he says you were looking at that man in the car you mean on the Dallas highway, if you've ever been to Dallas zoom car.

00:21:52.282 --> 00:21:52.804
Right on the 10.

00:21:53.609 --> 00:21:54.992
What are you talking about?

00:21:54.992 --> 00:21:57.659
Like I couldn't even say.

00:21:57.659 --> 00:22:01.430
Like, oh, you mean the guy that had the thing about.

00:22:01.430 --> 00:22:02.953
Like, yeah, I couldn't even say like, oh, you mean the guy that had the thing?

00:22:02.953 --> 00:22:03.776
I had no idea what he was speaking of.

00:22:03.776 --> 00:22:12.234
And I'm the one after he calmed down, I'm the one who essentially went out to get pizza, like the women I worked with.

00:22:12.234 --> 00:22:13.878
We worked through it.

00:22:13.878 --> 00:22:14.941
No, we didn't.

00:22:14.941 --> 00:22:20.361
He acted like a jerk and I ignored that really big warning sign.

00:22:20.361 --> 00:22:22.974
So don't give everything away at the beginning.

00:22:22.974 --> 00:22:29.282
Oh, I need a woman who's very affectionate because she's going to be maybe all affectionate when she's really not affectionate.

00:22:29.282 --> 00:22:30.950
And then the minute.

00:22:30.950 --> 00:22:32.215
The deal is sealed.

00:22:32.296 --> 00:22:34.405
Yeah, she's going to be like yeah, I don't need that.

00:22:34.405 --> 00:22:35.611
Get away from me, quit touching me.

00:22:35.611 --> 00:22:38.857
So you have to wait and see.

00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:40.621
I've got.

00:22:40.621 --> 00:22:50.397
I've got buddies like that, and I mean, even in my case I've been in now in hindsight looking back, abusive relationships, not physical ones.

00:22:50.397 --> 00:22:55.873
I don't particularly tolerate that too well, my patience is a lot lower, I think, for that kind of a thing.

00:22:55.873 --> 00:23:09.969
But when it comes to verbal abuse or emotional abuse, after a while, well, for example, especially in my case, I didn't know what I had.

00:23:09.969 --> 00:23:12.758
You know what I mean, my worth, what I was bringing to the table.

00:23:12.758 --> 00:23:25.950
I didn't have really much confidence because I took it all for granted, like you said, well, I can, I can, you know whatever hang pictures and fix sinks and handyman stuff and the practical things, and I stood on that as more of my identity.

00:23:25.950 --> 00:23:31.082
And then so, when I could continue to provide those things, the environment didn't matter.

00:23:31.082 --> 00:23:32.917
So I can still fix things, I can still do things.

00:23:32.917 --> 00:23:40.462
And so I started to justify my own position in the relationships respective to the relationships from that perspective.

00:23:42.310 --> 00:23:51.912
But then I couldn't figure it out why, consistently, over a few of them, I was getting comments like who's that I don't know, I've never met her before.

00:23:51.912 --> 00:23:57.614
Yeah, I have no idea, or you know, uh, sometimes maybe it's warranted.

00:23:57.614 --> 00:23:59.098
Why are you spending so much time at work?

00:23:59.098 --> 00:24:00.030
Other times it wasn't.

00:24:00.030 --> 00:24:04.742
And then it turns into why are you spending so much time at work?

00:24:04.742 --> 00:24:07.891
Because I'm at work, I don't know.

00:24:07.891 --> 00:24:09.655
What do you want me to say, you know.

00:24:09.655 --> 00:24:15.999
And then after a while it gets interesting, I think, because it can turn into this I may as well do it whatever.

00:24:15.999 --> 00:24:22.612
Whatever it is, because I can't get around not doing it and having that be the truth anyway.

00:24:23.173 --> 00:24:23.653
Exactly.

00:24:24.214 --> 00:24:30.394
And I think it starts to cause its own sort of what's the self-perpetuating catalyst.

00:24:30.875 --> 00:24:32.240
Self-fulfilling prophecy yeah.

00:24:32.539 --> 00:24:39.961
Self-fulfilling prophecy, yes, yep, and so then it becomes its own problem at that point, that otherwise wasn't there.

00:24:40.282 --> 00:24:41.003
It would have been an issue.

00:24:41.003 --> 00:24:58.900
Well, in my first marriage before my sweet David, I realized towards the end of it, when you know there's usually a defining moment when a marriage is done, there's something that breaks inside one of the people Normally it's not you and I agree that we're just not a good fit.

00:24:58.900 --> 00:25:00.169
That's not how you and I agree that we're just not a good fit.

00:25:00.169 --> 00:25:01.116
That's not how most marriages end.

00:25:01.116 --> 00:25:11.681
And I remember thinking to myself one day it occurred to me I thought huh, he's angry no matter what I do, and I'm sick of shaking.

00:25:11.681 --> 00:25:22.063
The minute I would hear him pull in, I would start to shake because I knew there was going to be a deluge of why did you do this?

00:25:22.063 --> 00:25:24.093
Okay, the next time I wouldn't do it.

00:25:24.093 --> 00:25:25.336
Why didn't you do that?

00:25:25.336 --> 00:25:28.403
And I realized I couldn't win.

00:25:28.403 --> 00:25:34.810
And so I thought I may as well start doing what I want, because he's going to be angry, no matter what.

00:25:34.810 --> 00:25:40.834
And I'll tell you on the last weekend that we were officially together, but he didn't know it was going to be the last weekend.

00:25:41.375 --> 00:25:42.617
I had fun with him.

00:25:42.617 --> 00:25:44.122
I'm a nice Catholic girl.

00:25:44.122 --> 00:25:51.862
I've been to confession since then but I had a lot of fun just doing the things that would annoy him.

00:25:51.862 --> 00:25:54.676
Because I thought why are you telling me how to drive?

00:25:54.676 --> 00:25:58.258
I'm a competent driver, I don't have a bad driving history.

00:25:58.258 --> 00:26:01.509
Why are you telling me, like you want to get in the left lane now?

00:26:01.509 --> 00:26:05.715
Only tell me that for directions, but don't tell me, get around this car.

00:26:05.715 --> 00:26:08.438
Don't micromanage me.

00:26:08.438 --> 00:26:09.573
Yes, tell me directions.

00:26:09.573 --> 00:26:15.676
So I'm not good at that and it was fun turning it around on him and of course it made him furious.

00:26:15.676 --> 00:26:18.479
But at that point I didn't shake anymore.

00:26:18.479 --> 00:26:22.292
I thought I'm not going to be afraid of you anymore.

00:26:22.292 --> 00:26:27.031
I grew up with men who were my father and brother, who were tougher than you on your best day.

00:26:27.031 --> 00:26:29.196
So why have I been scared of you?

00:26:29.196 --> 00:26:31.241
I'm no longer afraid of you.

00:26:33.010 --> 00:26:35.480
Alrighty, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:26:37.710 --> 00:26:43.542
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00:27:24.740 --> 00:27:31.678
I grew up with men who were my father and brother, who were tougher than you on your best day, so why have I been scared of you?

00:27:31.678 --> 00:27:33.722
I'm no longer afraid of you.

00:27:34.349 --> 00:28:03.611
So that's something I wanted to ask you about, right, like you talked earlier about a little bit of what did you call confirmation bias and and how that this sort of tends to mask these situations and I think very directly contributes to a degree of imposter syndrome at present or in the future as well, because then you don't know who to trust, even if it's you telling you yeah, but developing that degree of awareness, even excluded from this type of an environment, is difficult.

00:28:05.194 --> 00:28:08.762
So how do you develop that kind of awareness when you're in that kind of environment?

00:28:09.750 --> 00:28:14.626
I think it's when to ask yourself, and if you're a faith-filled person.

00:28:14.626 --> 00:28:26.243
As a Christian, I would ask God to reveal to me like Lord, things don't feel right, or Lord, every day I don't have a sense of basic peace.

00:28:26.243 --> 00:28:30.296
Even if, you know, the hot water heater overflows or breaks or something.

00:28:30.296 --> 00:28:50.159
Okay, that's going to be distressing, but why is my default not to go back to peace and trust that everything's going to be okay If I do the things I need to be doing adulting, you know all those, all those things taking care of myself, going to the doctor, all those things and so when there's not peace, that's a big problem.

00:28:50.159 --> 00:29:02.565
And then, when there is a lack of congruency, so when the person is talking the talk and they're not walking the walk.

00:29:03.210 --> 00:29:08.371
You know, I'm the best husband and I treat this woman fabulously and she's lucky to be married to me.

00:29:08.371 --> 00:29:13.902
And I'm thinking okay, if people knew what life was like at home?

00:29:13.902 --> 00:29:24.141
So people came up to us in public, he would immediately, like we were about to go meet people that we knew and he had just called me a vulgar, horrible name, said something contemptuous to me.

00:29:24.141 --> 00:29:37.403
He would put an arm around me and squeeze, letting me know well, don't you let the cat out of the bag, and because I grew up in a home where I was literally told get that look off your face.

00:29:37.403 --> 00:29:42.701
So if something upsetting happened and I'm a little girl and I'm like I couldn't have that.

00:29:42.721 --> 00:29:47.461
And I don't mean I walked around pouting all the time, because I wouldn't put up with that for my own child either.

00:29:47.461 --> 00:29:53.355
But in the moment there'd be something very upsetting, but I wasn't allowed to feel my feelings.

00:29:53.355 --> 00:30:04.840
And then also I got I'm 5'8" okay, I'm tall, taller than the average woman, and I was down to 117 pounds.

00:30:04.840 --> 00:30:12.978
I weighed 114 when I modeled in high school as a freshman and I was down to 117.

00:30:12.978 --> 00:30:18.839
It wasn't because I was watching my figure, it was because I felt so upset.

00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:29.117
I was constantly in fight or flight and you know, I'm sure from your military background, when there is what you think is a danger ahead could be a real danger, could be a perceived danger.

00:30:29.117 --> 00:30:35.780
Your body shuts down eating, you don't have time for a snack, there's someone coming after you, so your body goes up.

00:30:35.820 --> 00:30:36.730
We're going to shut that down.

00:30:36.730 --> 00:30:41.982
That's why after trauma, most people are like I'm ravenous, I could eat a horse.

00:30:41.982 --> 00:30:46.540
Yeah, because your body shut down and that adrenaline coursing through your body.

00:30:46.540 --> 00:30:54.417
I cried a lot, and I don't mean over a sad movie, I just would cry and I would think why am I crying?

00:30:54.417 --> 00:30:58.711
And it's fascinating I don't have the research in front of me, I have it buried in my computer.

00:30:58.711 --> 00:31:07.585
But the tears from grief and sadness, the chemical makeup is different than tears from I just hit my shin really hard.

00:31:09.730 --> 00:31:10.172
They're different.

00:31:10.172 --> 00:31:10.794
Google it.

00:31:11.055 --> 00:31:11.556
You'll be.

00:31:11.556 --> 00:31:13.582
It's just, it's amazing.

00:31:13.582 --> 00:31:19.141
So, even though I didn't go and have my tears tested, I was grieving that.

00:31:19.141 --> 00:31:28.076
How have I lived this many years, been, I think, a really good wife and mom and I'm treated this way, and it didn't match up.

00:31:28.076 --> 00:31:46.240
So, when my life no longer had congruency and my identity as a beloved child of God, a princess of the Most High God, when that wasn't being reflected back to me and my husband, something was off and the other thing I did.

00:31:46.299 --> 00:31:55.304
My final point on that will be I went to a therapist and said I just want to tell you about a situation and explained it to her.

00:31:55.304 --> 00:31:58.074
I don't think I'm crazy.

00:31:58.074 --> 00:32:04.634
And she said I love her words and I use them to this day with my own clients, way before I became a therapist.

00:32:04.634 --> 00:32:25.021
She said people with his type of personality that's a euphemism for a jerk and often it means a person could have narcissism, antisocial personality disorder, histrionic something, some kind of you know, a borderline or something where they're not behaving well.

00:32:25.021 --> 00:32:34.096
And she said here's what's going to happen You're going to go home and you're going to lay down the boundary about the thing he told you you had to do and you couldn't do.

00:32:34.898 --> 00:32:45.039
Okay, and I wrote it down and she goes and here's what he's going to say and I wrote it down and she goes and here's what he's going to say and I wrote it down and I went home and I set the boundary about the thing he was telling me I had to do.

00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:49.503
And the thing he said I couldn't do was all involved in one situation and we're off the air.

00:32:49.503 --> 00:32:51.165
Later I can tell you the story if you want to hear it.

00:32:51.165 --> 00:32:58.551
And it was as if she was psychic.

00:32:58.551 --> 00:33:00.035
I don't believe in that, that's not a thing I don't think.

00:33:00.035 --> 00:33:04.105
And she predicted he did what she said he would do.

00:33:04.105 --> 00:33:06.178
He said what she said.

00:33:06.178 --> 00:33:16.242
So after that happened and I got through the situation and again did what I needed to do for our son, I went back to her and I said, okay, I'm not ready for ongoing therapy at this point.

00:33:16.242 --> 00:33:17.634
How did you know that?

00:33:17.634 --> 00:33:20.317
Because I don't believe in psychics.

00:33:20.317 --> 00:33:23.878
If you have any information you're not supposed to have, I think that's demonic.

00:33:23.878 --> 00:33:25.911
So how did you know that?

00:33:25.911 --> 00:33:28.676
And she said it's because of his personality type.

00:33:29.499 --> 00:33:38.089
Anyone, any story that fit kind of like yours in a puzzle, that's what they do, and so that's part of what comes to my practice.

00:33:38.089 --> 00:33:45.313
A lot are these type of situations, which is why I felt so led because of the married couples Again, not all of them.

00:33:45.313 --> 00:33:50.837
Some of them are absolutely delightful and loving and then the women that came to me with these abuse stories.

00:33:50.837 --> 00:33:52.762
It just was put on my heart.

00:33:52.762 --> 00:33:57.101
I can only see so many people in my office and only in Texas.

00:33:57.101 --> 00:34:00.912
So many people in my office and only in Texas.

00:34:00.912 --> 00:34:09.039
We have to help more women, because that's where God has called me more women to avoid this unnecessary suffering and then go through a divorce, because I don't want anyone going through what I went through.

00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:11.114
I want them to have what I have with my David now.

00:34:11.914 --> 00:34:20.443
Yeah, well, and that kind of a well, actually that kind of a pattern recognition is important too, and I think that's just a sort of natural bias.

00:34:20.443 --> 00:34:23.797
You know, we try to at least in my experience.

00:34:23.797 --> 00:34:29.889
We try to find ways to control the chaos and put boundaries and constraints and figure out a way to make it make sense.

00:34:29.889 --> 00:34:41.862
Yeah, and even if it just doesn't, I think conflict and chaos are equally as natural in the world and it's okay to just it just doesn't click, it just doesn't make sense.

00:34:41.862 --> 00:34:47.679
Yes, and then to try to reframe that kind of uh, what did you?

00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:49.884
Why did you frame it earlier?

00:34:49.884 --> 00:34:51.012
Oh, that's right.

00:34:51.353 --> 00:35:16.657
When you and david were dating, you said after some time I started to know his character yes I think that kind of more positive and proactive pattern recognition or maybe it's some sort of sociocultural bias, I don't know but that kind of capability, when you get to know somebody to that degree that you can stand on it, that you can trust it, I think that's the goal of any relationship.

00:35:16.657 --> 00:35:30.061
Maybe it ends in marriage, maybe it ends in friendship, maybe it ends in professional workplace, I don't know harmony or whatever you want to call it, but I think that's the goal in any relationship where you get to know somebody after the facade falls.

00:35:30.603 --> 00:35:31.284
Yes, the mask.

00:35:32.130 --> 00:35:36.320
Yeah, exactly, actually it was in that movie, I think the Mask with Jim Carrey.

00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:37.771
It was in a Ben Stein.

00:35:37.771 --> 00:35:39.195
It's all about the masks we wear.

00:35:39.195 --> 00:35:42.202
You know, that's exactly what he was talking about in the movie.

00:35:42.349 --> 00:35:43.956
We present ourselves a certain way.

00:35:44.418 --> 00:35:45.590
That's it Right.

00:35:46.012 --> 00:35:47.273
But then we're real people.

00:35:47.273 --> 00:35:59.384
So it's funny like when people think I'm a therapist 24, seven, I'm just a wounded child in the adult body of a woman who's been through a lot of stuff.

00:35:59.384 --> 00:36:01.617
I do have my educational background.

00:36:01.617 --> 00:36:03.554
I think I do have some God-given wisdom.

00:36:03.554 --> 00:36:05.197
I'm just a person.

00:36:05.197 --> 00:36:12.737
So like I don't join women's groups where it's a support group because it's just weird.

00:36:12.737 --> 00:36:17.030
Everyone else gets to be sad, upset, overwhelmed.

00:36:17.030 --> 00:36:21.342
Not the therapist, because they expect you to be a certain way.

00:36:21.342 --> 00:36:27.882
So there's still that mask to a certain degree, but not the mask of dishonesty.

00:36:28.083 --> 00:36:43.059
It's simply that you have to be this close in my world and you have to have earned your way here, because what I hear women say a lot, and maybe men say it too, but I hear the women say, well, he has, let's say, integrity, okay, great.

00:36:43.059 --> 00:36:46.463
And I smile and I'm thinking, oh, I know what's about to happen here.

00:36:46.463 --> 00:36:48.166
Again, not psychic, it's just a pattern.

00:36:48.206 --> 00:37:08.105
I'll say what examples do you have Nine out of 10 times they go, they can't answer, or they'll say a woman say this one a lot, um, I'm a daddy's girl, or I was a daddy's girl maybe their father has passed on, okay, well, I've.

00:37:08.105 --> 00:37:13.525
You know, you've been my client for six months and you, you said you brought up your daddy's girl numerous times.

00:37:13.525 --> 00:37:17.094
So I would love to hear a story about you being a daddy's girl.

00:37:17.094 --> 00:37:20.481
Well, and then at the beach.

00:37:20.481 --> 00:37:33.278
No, that's not, it's a fantasy, it's delusion that they want to be the girl who was a daddy's girl, but they don't have those stories.

00:37:33.278 --> 00:37:37.713
And then I do know people that man, they can go on forever with all the daddy girl stories.

00:37:37.753 --> 00:37:46.440
And my father, god rest his soul he passed not that long ago, very unexpectedly, and one of my cousins said you were always a daddy's girl.

00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:49.920
And I was like, cuz what?

00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:54.617
I didn't have a father, that I'm the only girl.

00:37:54.617 --> 00:37:54.836
That.

00:37:54.836 --> 00:37:57.643
What are you basing that off of?

00:37:57.643 --> 00:38:05.856
He had nothing to say, because I would love for him to have said remember the time I saw your dad and I'd be like, oh, how beautiful.

00:38:05.856 --> 00:38:07.251
I forgot that or I didn't know.

00:38:07.251 --> 00:38:07.954
He did that.

00:38:07.954 --> 00:38:12.199
No, and so part of this is we have to live in reality.

00:38:14.570 --> 00:38:17.152
All right, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:38:19.054 --> 00:38:22.460
Imagine spending 30 years defining yourself as a US airman.

00:38:22.460 --> 00:38:25.764
Now picture that identity vanishing overnight.

00:38:25.764 --> 00:38:33.996
On Transacting Value, meet Sarah Williams, a veteran who served three decades in aircraft maintenance.

00:38:33.996 --> 00:38:34.878
But retirement brought a crisis.

00:38:34.878 --> 00:38:35.722
Who was Sarah now?

00:38:35.722 --> 00:38:39.579
Shockingly, despite a long and decorated career, she felt lost.

00:38:39.579 --> 00:38:43.501
What filled the void wasn't another job but a calling.

00:38:43.501 --> 00:38:51.538
After working through the transition programs, she realized her purpose was to give back to veterans, first responders and patriotic families.

00:38:51.538 --> 00:38:54.980
She didn't want a six-figure job, she wanted purpose.

00:38:54.980 --> 00:39:01.298
Now, with Firewatch Magazine, sarah helps others navigate their own transitions.

00:39:01.298 --> 00:39:10.481
Her journey from airman to advocate reveals a powerful truth your identity is never fixed and reinvention is always possible.

00:39:11.510 --> 00:39:25.934
Discover stories of resilience and purpose at firewatchmagazinecom and tune into Transacting Value to hear more because I would love for him to have said remember the time I saw your dad and I'd be like, oh, how beautiful.

00:39:25.934 --> 00:39:28.021
I forgot that or I didn't know he did that.

00:39:28.021 --> 00:39:32.280
No, and so part of this is we have to live in reality.

00:39:33.630 --> 00:39:35.896
Well, and I think that takes honest feedback.

00:39:35.896 --> 00:39:39.231
If it's not your own assessment, it has to be somebody else's that you trust.

00:39:39.231 --> 00:39:39.452
Right?

00:39:39.452 --> 00:39:40.092
There's only one.

00:39:40.092 --> 00:39:47.884
Well, I guess there's only two ways to see any situation you know individually, and then a second party yes but it can be.

00:39:48.083 --> 00:40:05.222
It can be constructive too, and it was like you said earlier when you brought up, you know, prior to technology or or this sort of digital revolution we've got happening in the world today, where you said evil can be everywhere, just not everywhere at once, yeah, and now obviously it's moving at the speed of light, yes.

00:40:05.222 --> 00:40:11.143
So to be able to sort of put that into a perspective, I think that's interesting too.

00:40:11.143 --> 00:40:21.824
The amount of human nature that takes place in any isolated village and I mean this firsthand, from the places that I've been to at least doesn't change.

00:40:21.824 --> 00:40:27.878
That I've been to at least doesn't change.

00:40:27.878 --> 00:40:31.469
People are still people, even if they've never had contact with you know, pick a more popular platform or whatever, it doesn't matter.

00:40:31.469 --> 00:40:40.717
Social media, let's say, but there's still lies, there's still deceit, there's still insecurity, there's still some degree of dishonesty or distrust or manipulation or whatever.

00:40:40.717 --> 00:40:45.724
Right, right, and so I don't know that necessarily it's spreading so fast.

00:40:45.724 --> 00:40:53.891
I think now it's just easier to be aware of the potential that it's everywhere and then seeing it right.

00:40:53.972 --> 00:40:57.581
So that's possible yeah, I, I think it is.

00:40:57.581 --> 00:40:59.505
Uh, I think it is possible.

00:40:59.505 --> 00:41:06.822
So this is, I think, a good point in the conversation for a segment of the show called Developing Character D-D-D-Developing Character.

00:41:06.822 --> 00:41:12.199
And so this is two questions, and my reason for this is pretty simple.

00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:34.454
People are going to act a certain way, I think, based off of one of two stimuli in any particular relationship One is nature and one is nurture, and it just is because not everybody's witting to how they come across to other people, and so my working theory is that it's rooted in some sort of value system, even if it's inaccurately applied to a situation.

00:41:34.454 --> 00:41:47.963
So I'm curious in all of your assessments so far some of yours, and so these are my two questions as you were growing up, what were some of the values that you remember being taught or that you were exposed to?

00:41:47.963 --> 00:41:54.130
And then my second question is now that you're older, having gained all this experience, what are some of your values now?

00:41:54.911 --> 00:41:56.353
I like those questions very, very much.

00:41:56.353 --> 00:41:58.356
So as a child.

00:41:58.356 --> 00:42:14.737
What I think is interesting is I was taught to stand up for myself, but there was a caveat, and the caveat was outside of the home, not in the home.

00:42:14.737 --> 00:42:17.402
In the home, you have no power.

00:42:17.402 --> 00:42:22.054
I don't care that you're 12, 18, 20, 40.

00:42:23.197 --> 00:42:26.851
You only can stand up to people outside of here and you better stand up to them.

00:42:26.851 --> 00:42:35.594
So I was taught growing up if someone starts a fight you may finish it, but you may never start the fight.

00:42:35.594 --> 00:42:36.856
You can't throw the first punch.

00:42:36.856 --> 00:42:40.914
And I wasn't told like and you better win that fight, like they better be in the hot.

00:42:40.914 --> 00:42:43.961
No, I wasn't told that, but it was this idea.

00:42:43.961 --> 00:42:46.521
Like my mother taught me I used to babysit.

00:42:46.521 --> 00:42:50.137
I remember I think I got like I was up to like $2 and 25 cents an hour.

00:42:50.137 --> 00:42:54.010
I was like a big time babysitter in my little neighborhood, that's very popular with the parents.

00:42:54.130 --> 00:42:56.813
Right, and so my mother would help me calculate.

00:42:56.813 --> 00:43:00.679
Okay, if you know, they pick you up at six and they bring you home at 10.

00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:01.940
Like this is how much money?

00:43:01.940 --> 00:43:08.027
Because I was not the queen of math, as I said earlier, and so I would already know, like, okay, I should get $10 or $12.

00:43:08.027 --> 00:43:12.922
And the Sinai's parents would give me a tip and I wouldn't be confused Like why am I getting $15?

00:43:12.922 --> 00:43:21.119
And this one family, the mother, didn't pay me correctly and my mother said you're going to call her and here's what you say.

00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:26.172
And I was like, oh, oh, no, mom, no, no, mom, it doesn't matter, I don't need the money.

00:43:26.512 --> 00:43:27.695
No, ma'am, I'll rock the boat.

00:43:28.117 --> 00:43:28.920
Yeah, you're going to stand up.

00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:33.701
Hi, mrs Smith, you know I did my little thing and it was obvious the way she spoke to me.

00:43:33.701 --> 00:43:38.016
She did it on purpose, it wasn't a miscalculation.

00:43:38.016 --> 00:43:43.164
And my mother said you need to tell her she's to bring that money to you now and blah, blah, blah.

00:43:43.164 --> 00:43:44.150
And I did it.

00:43:44.150 --> 00:43:48.739
The interesting part that was I wasn't allowed to do that in my own home.

00:43:49.181 --> 00:43:57.148
So when a just normal boundary of just any child in a family was violated, it wasn't respected.

00:43:57.148 --> 00:44:01.617
I was not allowed to say anything and I would get in trouble and yelled at.

00:44:01.617 --> 00:44:04.023
So that was odd.

00:44:04.023 --> 00:44:05.856
I was given my Catholic faith.

00:44:05.856 --> 00:44:07.000
My parents are converts.

00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:09.539
I'm very grateful for my Catholic faith.

00:44:09.539 --> 00:44:12.298
That is the essence of my life and my marriage.

00:44:12.298 --> 00:44:18.483
However, most converts are zealots about their faith.

00:44:18.483 --> 00:44:22.632
They're just so on fire whichever direction someone goes if they go to a different faith.

00:44:22.632 --> 00:44:29.443
So even though it was something I was supposed to live up to, it wasn't discussed.

00:44:29.443 --> 00:44:40.726
It was like let the other people teach you the Sunday school teacher, the priest, let other people teach you, but we're really not going to discuss it.

00:44:40.726 --> 00:44:56.909
So my home was a lot of you talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk, which is why I then, of course, was attracted to men at that point who that felt familiar, because it felt comfortable to me Not a good comfortable, but in the back of my brain thinking yeah, safer, I can do this all day long.

00:44:56.949 --> 00:44:57.650
I know how to do it.

00:44:57.650 --> 00:44:59.974
My values today, oh my goodness.

00:44:59.974 --> 00:45:07.451
Self-confidence and I don't mean in this narcissistic, oh my gosh, look at me, way In a.

00:45:07.451 --> 00:45:28.451
I have inherent dignity because I'm a child of God, and then I need to treat other people that way, and so one of the values I live by is treating other people as human beings and treating objects as objects, not treating a person as an object.

00:45:29.331 --> 00:45:30.094
Oh, that's interesting.

00:45:30.675 --> 00:45:32.538
Pope John Paul II, the great yeah.

00:45:33.659 --> 00:45:38.695
There's sort of an interesting I don't know subcontext.

00:45:38.695 --> 00:45:46.659
I think to that point though, in medicine you have to deal with this kind of dissonance or intentional distancing all the time.

00:45:46.659 --> 00:45:49.498
Healthcare, let's say, maybe more than medicine, but healthcare.

00:45:49.498 --> 00:45:52.336
Just like you do in the defense industry.

00:45:52.336 --> 00:46:21.300
To take a 17 or an 18-year-old, let's say, on average in the enlisted ranks in the US Department of Defense and say you're going to go into an active kinetic warfighting environment and you may have to shoot somebody, takes some conditioning yeah and some degree of desensitizing and dehumanizing and to a certain extent it's a necessary evil of the industry yes, yes.

00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:35.677
The difficulty comes in when they say uh, four years later, eight years, 20 years later, whatever I'm done, for whatever reason done, I'm going to go be a banker, a teacher, a cop, a firefighter or whatever it becomes.

00:46:35.677 --> 00:46:37.831
I'm going to grow mushrooms or do whatever.

00:46:37.831 --> 00:46:44.101
Okay, great, and never did anybody explain what you just said.

00:46:45.224 --> 00:46:45.505
Really.

00:46:47.050 --> 00:47:03.905
No, there is no backwards sort of you know the human intelligence or the human capital or the personal development or the social reintegration type aspect of that on the back end of of a of a service contract.

00:47:03.905 --> 00:47:20.231
And so to compensate for that or supplement for that at least in the United States especially, we have licensed mental health counselors and social workers and psychiatrists and all these teams of people to help with that while somebody is actively serving or, you know, for their families, whatever applies.

00:47:20.231 --> 00:47:24.021
But no, otherwise that conversation doesn't happen.

00:47:24.021 --> 00:47:35.663
Yeah, and so if the conversation doesn't happen and if you don't volunteer for the help or if you shy away from it or avoid it when it is available, well then what do you have to stand on?

00:47:35.663 --> 00:47:42.594
And how many millions of people then reintegrate into society with that particular mindset that's going to cause problems.

00:47:43.097 --> 00:48:07.817
So I I think conversations like this and points that you're making, careers that you like yours, that you got into, I think they make all the difference, just because they exist, whether or not you're, you know, restricted to texas, it doesn't mean like this on the airwaves or on podcasts you are, and it makes like this on the airwaves or on podcasts you are, and it makes all the difference, just just to hear you say it.

00:48:07.817 --> 00:48:12.168
Um, so I don't think your upbringing is is necessarily unique in that regard.

00:48:12.168 --> 00:48:13.672
Unfortunately, it's fairly common.

00:48:14.213 --> 00:48:14.635
It is.

00:48:14.635 --> 00:48:31.443
You're right, and I'm thinking that some of what you were saying could speak to at least an aspect of the high suicide rate of people right In active military, when they're not active, and it's heartbreaking.

00:48:31.443 --> 00:48:43.510
And so in counseling there's something known as non-directive therapy and that's this more laid back, don't really get overly engaged.

00:48:43.510 --> 00:48:46.849
You let the person talk and then you do the occasional.

00:48:46.849 --> 00:48:55.076
So how does that make you feel, josh, which sometimes I do want to know how my client feels, because all they're talking about are their thoughts.

00:48:55.076 --> 00:48:59.175
They're saying the word feel, but they're actually not using feeling words.

00:48:59.775 --> 00:49:15.204
So go well, I feel that the reason why okay, that's not a feeling, that's a thought- Well, we're detached and then conditioned to be detached, yes, and so then the ability to effectively communicate from a position of attachment doesn't exist.

00:49:15.664 --> 00:49:22.532
No, no, it totally fails, and so what I tell people when they call me, cause people will message me or text me, email me.

00:49:22.532 --> 00:49:27.038
Hey, dana, I found you online, someone referred me to you, whatever.

00:49:27.038 --> 00:49:29.157
And what are your rates and what are your?

00:49:29.157 --> 00:49:35.242
No, I don't ever, ever say well, the Blue Crossers, I don't do any of that.

00:49:35.242 --> 00:49:38.278
I say when's a good time to chat about your counseling needs?

00:49:38.278 --> 00:49:42.295
Or people say none of that matters, just add me to your calendar.

00:49:42.295 --> 00:49:58.192
No, because I need to tell them up front.

00:49:58.253 --> 00:49:58.753
I'm a directive therapist.

00:49:58.753 --> 00:50:00.599
I know 99% of them are all like oh, carl Rogers, and non-directive.

00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:01.179
It never sat right with me.

00:50:01.179 --> 00:50:08.059
For me, if you want that kind of therapist, they're out there, they're very easy to find and they probably charge a lot less money and they're probably on every insurance panel.

00:50:08.059 --> 00:50:20.094
That's not me, because God put me on this earth all those years that I was silenced and shut down For the last 20 years of my life I haven't been that way.

00:50:20.516 --> 00:50:27.005
So when the Holy Spirit gives me a word of knowledge or something, I put it out there, I test it.

00:50:27.005 --> 00:50:29.717
I don't act like I'm the mouthpiece of Jesus.

00:50:29.717 --> 00:50:31.518
I say does it resonate?

00:50:31.518 --> 00:50:36.983
And even when they go, sometimes, no, I really don't think that fits.

00:50:36.983 --> 00:50:42.880
And I know inside, I can tell in my body I'm thinking no, I feel it in my bones and I'll go.

00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:48.619
Okay, they will, within a day or two, text me, email me, dana.

00:50:48.619 --> 00:50:51.737
Oh my gosh, when you said blah, blah, blah, it hit me.

00:50:51.737 --> 00:50:54.297
Why did I not connect the two things?

00:50:54.297 --> 00:50:56.652
That's, you're the third person to say that to me.

00:50:56.652 --> 00:51:00.777
So when it's a non-directive therapist, they just don't.

00:51:00.777 --> 00:51:02.518
They would never say anything like that.

00:51:02.518 --> 00:51:06.003
And I put it out there because that's just how God made me.

00:51:06.003 --> 00:51:08.065
So all the years I was constrained.

00:51:08.065 --> 00:51:15.411
It went against who God made me to be.

00:51:15.411 --> 00:51:18.599
And I'm not everyone's cup of tea, and that's okay, because I'm enough of a cup of tea for other people that it's great.

00:51:18.599 --> 00:51:19.541
I have a full practice.

00:51:20.710 --> 00:51:21.914
Well, congratulations again.

00:51:22.454 --> 00:51:22.815
Thank you.

00:51:23.318 --> 00:51:23.759
That's huge.

00:51:23.759 --> 00:51:30.235
Saying that, I guess actually for the sake of time, I really only have two more questions for you.

00:51:30.235 --> 00:51:32.360
But saying all those things, I mean you've talked to loads of people.

00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:36.277
Like I said, all I can speak to is at least 3,000 hours worth of people.

00:51:36.277 --> 00:51:47.994
So through all that time your own experience, other clients, all the above what has it actually done to instigate your own sense of self and your own self-worth?

00:51:47.994 --> 00:51:51.001
Now, having gone through all of that and come out on the other side?

00:51:52.030 --> 00:51:53.552
I thank God for the suffering.

00:51:53.552 --> 00:52:02.255
I thank him for the trauma, for the abuse, for the neglect, for the heartache and pain.

00:52:02.255 --> 00:52:05.922
I thank him for the cancer, what came from it?

00:52:05.922 --> 00:52:13.018
Not the actual cancer, because it was pretty miserable, but I've had lots of operations and treatments, I assure you, but I'm cancer-free, thank you, Lord.

00:52:13.018 --> 00:52:20.721
But that suffering doesn't have to be wasted and that I am his beloved child.

00:52:20.721 --> 00:52:24.411
Even though I did suffer, I'm not.

00:52:24.711 --> 00:52:27.721
I don't think poorly about myself because of what all I've been through.

00:52:27.721 --> 00:52:39.380
I think he loves me so much that he's allowing me to experience some of the suffering that Christ went through, because if we're going to for those who are Christians, we're not just supposed to be.

00:52:39.380 --> 00:52:45.331
Okay, I turn over tables because of the money changers, or Jesus was really cool about these things.

00:52:45.331 --> 00:52:54.574
No, I live a life where I have enough self-esteem that if I bring okay, I don't want to be disrespectful.

00:52:54.574 --> 00:53:05.023
If I bring, like the, let's say, theology of Dana, okay, let's make that silly thing up and someone doesn't grab onto it, that's okay.

00:53:06.030 --> 00:53:10.181
I dust off my feet and I walk away and I leave them, that's okay.

00:53:10.181 --> 00:53:25.505
They're not meant to be in my life, and so that's the biggest thing is I only have people in my life that treat me well, and if they mess up or if I mess up, we forgive each other, we hug it out and we do better.

00:53:25.505 --> 00:53:29.561
I no longer accept people in my life when people are like well, that's your family.

00:53:29.561 --> 00:53:32.393
Should my family treat me better than that?

00:53:32.393 --> 00:53:37.735
Why should that girlfriend I've had for 20 years that is just like a sister me, why does she treat me better?

00:53:37.735 --> 00:53:39.623
But the people that share my DNA don't?

00:53:39.623 --> 00:53:48.199
So there are some family members that I'm very close to and there are some that I'm going to love them from very, very far away.

00:53:49.822 --> 00:53:52.447
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:53:52.447 --> 00:53:55.619
There's a lot of growth opportunities.

00:53:55.619 --> 00:53:58.597
I think they come up as a result of that.

00:53:58.597 --> 00:54:06.155
Yes, speaking of, there's also a lot of growth opportunities to bring people closer, and so you mentioned your book earlier.

00:54:06.155 --> 00:54:15.753
For people that want to get in touch, either as clients or readers, or follow you on other shows whatever applies other podcasts when do people go?

00:54:15.753 --> 00:54:16.675
How do they do it?

00:54:17.217 --> 00:54:17.838
Thank you for that.

00:54:17.838 --> 00:54:28.235
So if you go to my website, dananygardcom just like it's on the screen there you can access my book, and it's one book in four different editions.

00:54:28.235 --> 00:54:32.184
So it's 365 dates to renew your Christian marriage.

00:54:32.184 --> 00:54:53.481
The purple are Catholic, the red are Protestant and the Protestant one is for Protestant brothers and sisters, and it's for it really comes in handy when there's a mixed faith marriage and maybe one spouse is anti-Catholic and like hey, you're not bringing that Catholic stuff in here, it just it just tones down the Catholicity, if that's the word of it.

00:54:53.481 --> 00:55:02.501
But it's over a thousand 1,095 date night questions, set up in a format of three questions per day, and so there's the warm up.

00:55:02.501 --> 00:55:03.603
Then you get a little bit deeper.

00:55:03.603 --> 00:55:13.440
Now you're back home, you're on your patio having a glass of wine and it builds from the beginning until the end of it and it's to deepen that emotional intimacy.

00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:16.893
So there's that, and I do speaking engagements, keynotes.

00:55:16.893 --> 00:55:18.097
We travel around the country.

00:55:18.097 --> 00:55:20.121
I would love to go to Europe.

00:55:20.121 --> 00:55:23.900
So you know, let's, let's make things happen in other countries.

00:55:23.900 --> 00:55:30.875
And then my husband and I we have marriage retreats, marriage enrichment retreats that we lead, and so we have that.

00:55:31.050 --> 00:55:44.242
And then my current project, which is, oh my gosh, it has my heart so deep is claritypleasecom is the website where you go to, but it gives you access to my free online community.

00:55:44.242 --> 00:55:55.152
It's just for women, miss to Mrs, and it's all about what are red flags and what should you know about them and what did they mean?

00:55:55.152 --> 00:56:18.976
Because they all mean something, because every human being does what they do, because they get some sort of a payoff, and so you have to know if a man because, again, I work with women if a man does X and such, this is what it actually translates into it means he disrespects you or it means he's setting you up to see how much he can use you, sort of thing.

00:56:18.976 --> 00:56:31.541
So that's my current pet project that is so exciting to see women getting healing so that when they do go back out in the dating world, they choose better or to help them.

00:56:31.541 --> 00:56:36.458
Vet, is he my Mr right or is he my Mr wrong if they're dating someone currently?

00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:38.909
Yeah, having standards is important.

00:56:38.909 --> 00:56:50.056
I think it's also equally as important to clarify the amount of humility and discernment that comes with exercises and retreats like what you're describing, because it's through some discernment and some analysis.

00:56:50.056 --> 00:56:52.478
No, no, it's not, and that's okay too.

00:56:52.478 --> 00:56:52.858
That's right.

00:56:52.858 --> 00:57:12.695
Yeah, that's, that's huge.

00:57:12.695 --> 00:57:21.501
So for anybody who's new to our show, depending on the player you're streaming this conversation on or obviously here on YouTube click see more, click show more.

00:57:21.501 --> 00:57:33.889
And in the drop down description for the conversation, the show notes, you'll see links to dananigardcom and claritypleasecom and then obviously, your other links there on your website for social or to check out your books as well.

00:57:33.889 --> 00:57:37.021
I think this was a really cool conversation.

00:57:37.021 --> 00:57:40.735
In fact, the only real letdown I have is it was very fast and now time's up.

00:57:41.458 --> 00:57:42.101
You're awesome.

00:57:42.101 --> 00:57:52.896
Thank you, You're such a great host and this was such fun just going back and forth and I love the topic and I love your insight and I have such respect for anyone who's ever been in the military.

00:57:52.896 --> 00:58:01.994
So if this is not too trite to say thank you to you and for all the others who have served in our military and Veterans Day is very, very special to me as an.

00:58:01.994 --> 00:58:03.557
American, it's my birthday.

00:58:03.557 --> 00:58:05.021
Veterans Day.

00:58:05.021 --> 00:58:07.393
Yeah, thank you.

00:58:07.414 --> 00:58:07.855
It's just.

00:58:07.855 --> 00:58:13.032
It's such a special place in my heart, so thank you for all that you do in this podcast.

00:58:13.815 --> 00:58:15.277
Sure, sure, well.

00:58:15.277 --> 00:58:24.375
And that said, you know, having people like you come on and share your perspective with a certain degree of vulnerability and authenticity, I think is a lot in any particular circumstance and setting.

00:58:24.375 --> 00:58:29.514
But then to couple that, or maybe compound that, with we're going to broadcast it to the world, is that cool.

00:58:29.514 --> 00:58:32.791
If I put your face on it, you know it changes things a little bit.

00:58:32.791 --> 00:58:51.942
So also, yeah, having the courage to just talk about it, even though it may not be necessarily a big deal to you or anybody else that comes in onto the show in the future, it may be to other people, and having that experience listening to you or anybody else that comes in onto the show in the future, it may be to other people, and having that experience listening to you, watching you talk about some of these things can be an inspiration in its own right.

00:58:51.942 --> 00:58:52.543
So, yeah, absolutely.

00:58:52.543 --> 00:58:54.532
I'm just happy to have been a platform and part of it.

00:58:55.014 --> 00:58:55.757
Well, thank you.

00:58:55.757 --> 00:59:04.543
I think it's important for therapists not always in session but to be vulnerable, because people tend to put us on a pedestal oh, your life is so perfect.

00:59:04.543 --> 00:59:05.936
I'm just a person.

00:59:05.936 --> 00:59:10.561
I'm just a person who's been through things and I have some wisdom and knowledge to share.

00:59:11.550 --> 00:59:35.974
And that's an important caveat, I guess, for the sake of just making it more publicly proclaimed that there doesn't have to be this all-encompassing attribution of everything we talked about to every relationship, just as much as it doesn't necessarily apply to every service member or every first responder or every everybody, but there are circumstances where it could apply to anybody and I think that's why it's got some resonance.

00:59:35.974 --> 00:59:36.735
Yeah, absolutely.

00:59:36.735 --> 00:59:42.396
But again, yeah, thank you for your time and I appreciate the opportunity.

00:59:42.396 --> 00:59:47.954
And to everybody else who's listened to the conversation or watched it in this case, thank you guys for coming back.

00:59:47.954 --> 00:59:52.262
Or, if you're new to the show, thank you for coming out and listening to the conversation as well.

00:59:52.262 --> 00:59:53.896
I'll leave you with this before we close out.

00:59:53.896 --> 01:00:01.239
If you like this conversation and you want to hear more of our conversations, go to our website TransactingValuePodcastcom.

01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:09.293
You can find everything there, all of our seasons, the more recent ones and the really early ones that probably should be archived, but that's okay, they're up there as well.

01:00:09.293 --> 01:00:10.177
That's how we learn and grow.

01:00:10.780 --> 01:00:16.177
Now, saying that, on the top right-hand corner of the homepage it says leave a voicemail, click the button.

01:00:16.177 --> 01:00:22.059
It's two minutes of talk time all to you, and here's some recommendations about what you can do with it.

01:00:22.059 --> 01:00:24.512
One let us know what you think of the show.

01:00:24.512 --> 01:00:31.001
Tell us what you think about my questions, my style, the guests, the topics, the structure, the flow of the show anything I don't mind.

01:00:31.001 --> 01:00:32.286
Let me know what you think.

01:00:32.286 --> 01:00:35.199
Feedback is how we evolve the show and helps it to grow.

01:00:35.199 --> 01:00:37.771
And then obviously, you can tell your friends about it as well.

01:00:37.771 --> 01:00:43.601
But the second thing that works well with that leave a voicemail button is you can tell Dana what you think about this conversation.

01:00:43.601 --> 01:00:45.123
Let her know what you think about the topics.

01:00:45.123 --> 01:00:47.835
Let her know what you think about her responses, resources.

01:00:47.835 --> 01:00:49.659
You have situations you're going through.

01:00:49.659 --> 01:00:58.304
Keep in mind we do not have the need to have a HIPAA compliant voicemail fact or a piece to this show, okay.

01:00:58.304 --> 01:01:06.603
So whatever you decide to put in there to relay to Dana, if that's something you want, keep that in mind and we'll get you guys in touch and you can talk about that elsewhere.

01:01:06.603 --> 01:01:11.414
But let her know what you think about the show.

01:01:11.414 --> 01:01:12.498
Let her know what you think about her book.

01:01:12.498 --> 01:01:15.086
Leave her a review if you want, and we'll forward her the audio file as well.

01:01:15.106 --> 01:01:16.431
That said, I do appreciate your time.

01:01:16.431 --> 01:01:20.402
Anybody who sponsored and advertised and worked with our show obviously, my team.

01:01:20.402 --> 01:01:29.969
Thanks, guys for putting this together, but until next time that was Transacting Value.

01:01:29.969 --> 01:01:32.974
Thank you to our show partners and folks.

01:01:32.974 --> 01:01:35.103
Thank you for tuning in and appreciating our value as we all grow through life together.

01:01:35.103 --> 01:01:45.639
To check out our other conversations or even to contribute through feedback follows time, money or talent and to let us know what you think of the show, please leave a review on our website, transactingvaluepodcastcom.

01:01:46.402 --> 01:01:54.161
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01:01:54.161 --> 01:01:58.119
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01:01:58.119 --> 01:02:00.032
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01:02:00.032 --> 01:02:07.094
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01:02:07.094 --> 01:02:25.793
On behalf of our team and our global ambassadors, as you all strive to establish clarity and purpose, ensure social tranquility and secure the blessings of liberty or individual sovereignty of character for yourselves and your posterity, we will continue instigating self-worth and we'll meet you there.

01:02:25.793 --> 01:02:27.458
Until next time.

01:02:27.458 --> 01:02:29.284
That was Transacting Value.