WEBVTT

00:00:05.871 --> 00:00:13.330
Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for personal values when dealing with each other and even within ourselves.

00:00:13.330 --> 00:00:22.647
Where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries and finding belonging.

00:00:22.647 --> 00:00:26.701
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are your people.

00:00:26.701 --> 00:00:29.106
This is why values still hold value.

00:00:29.106 --> 00:00:31.533
This is Transacting Value.

00:00:34.005 --> 00:00:42.662
There's value in sharing this story because for this moment when I'm telling you the story, I am not invisible.

00:00:44.445 --> 00:00:45.728
Today on Transacting Value.

00:00:45.728 --> 00:00:48.573
What does it mean to be trauma-informed?

00:00:48.573 --> 00:00:55.802
How can we be held responsible for informing people about our traumas when we're the ones going through them to begin with?

00:00:55.802 --> 00:01:01.003
How can we be expected to take these steps when we're trying to figure out which steps to take ourselves?

00:01:01.003 --> 00:01:12.477
And maybe that trauma is a deployment or the result of a divorce, a funeral, maybe a birth or, in our next contributor's case, the Boston Marathon bombing.

00:01:12.477 --> 00:01:19.141
So if anybody gets triggered by this conversation, stay tuned because you may also likely hear ways to work around it.

00:01:19.141 --> 00:01:31.903
And in this particular Ma nya Chylinski, also talks about what's worked for her and how she's built back through competency and confidence, her own idea and vision and view of self-worth.

00:01:31.903 --> 00:01:43.343
Stay tuned till the end and we'll hear about how to track her down on social, how to follow her on her podcast and how to hear more about these tips and tricks as to what she's been able to accomplish in her own journey.

00:01:43.343 --> 00:01:46.513
Manya, how you doing?

00:01:47.295 --> 00:01:48.197
I'm doing great.

00:01:48.197 --> 00:01:50.042
I'm so excited to be talking to you today.

00:01:50.503 --> 00:01:50.843
Me too.

00:01:50.843 --> 00:02:02.623
The last time we talked actually, the last couple of times we talked have been awesome conversations, and now I feel like you're sort of giving me the opportunity to like, redeem myself.

00:02:02.623 --> 00:02:03.084
You know what I mean.

00:02:03.084 --> 00:02:06.501
I came on your show a couple of months ago, right, and when was that?

00:02:06.501 --> 00:02:06.921
Do you remember?

00:02:06.921 --> 00:02:08.346
It was in the fall, maybe winter.

00:02:08.927 --> 00:02:09.849
It was in the fall.

00:02:09.849 --> 00:02:11.763
It was November, I think it was the 29th.

00:02:12.304 --> 00:02:13.546
Okay, November 29th.

00:02:13.546 --> 00:02:16.772
So guys everybody listening, go check it out.

00:02:16.772 --> 00:02:19.774
Notes on Resilience podcast, Spotify and everywhere else.

00:02:19.774 --> 00:02:24.751
We'll cover that towards the tail end of this conversation, but like now I got you.

00:02:24.751 --> 00:02:25.835
You know what I mean.

00:02:25.835 --> 00:02:35.424
Now we can actually dive into a lot of that stuff that you were talking about, because I feel, like you wrote me in, we had so much stuff that we had to explore in like an hour.

00:02:36.306 --> 00:02:38.811
I know it was not enough time at all.

00:02:38.991 --> 00:02:39.211
No.

00:02:39.211 --> 00:02:44.491
So I'm really glad you had the opportunity to make some time in your schedule and, well, share it with us.

00:02:44.491 --> 00:02:46.182
So thanks for coming out.

00:02:46.182 --> 00:02:56.082
And before we get into too many crazy details, this is an audio only podcast, at least as it stands right now, and so for anybody new to the show, first of all, welcome to you guys.

00:02:56.082 --> 00:03:07.383
But they can't see you and obviously we're on a video call, so I've got a little, I think, rapport with you, a little little pizzazz or whatever, but, but the audience necessarily doesn't.

00:03:07.383 --> 00:03:09.551
So maybe we'll just start there.

00:03:09.551 --> 00:03:13.925
Take a couple minutes to yourself, but you know who are you, where are you from?

00:03:13.925 --> 00:03:16.271
What sort of things have shaped your perspective?

00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:25.741
My name is Manja Chalinsky and I live in Boston, although you can tell I don't have a Boston accent.

00:03:25.841 --> 00:03:35.911
I am not originally from here, I'm a transplant and I started my speaking career, I want to say, by accident, but I'm not sure that's really right.

00:03:36.633 --> 00:04:07.618
I am a survivor of the Boston Marathon bombing and that experience of thankfully not having any physical injuries but walking away with mental health wounds really changed my life for a variety of reasons, including the fact that we were invisible, and I started to realize that people who experience mental and emotional trauma often are invisible in our communities, in our organizations, in our workplaces.

00:04:07.639 --> 00:04:13.902
It's not something people necessarily want to talk about and I think we struggle sometimes with how to deal with that.

00:04:13.902 --> 00:05:03.543
So I started by talking about my experience and have grown into talking about the importance of compassion as a leader, compassionate leadership, the importance of paying attention to the people in your organization who have been traumatized, because when you build an organization that's supportive of them, it lifts up everybody and it builds a real human centered organization that has a lot of benefits, including reduced absenteeism, improved productivity all of these statistics that I probably don't have right at my fingertips right now, but there's so many positives to building a human centered culture and helping people deal with mental health challenges, whether that's from trauma or something else, and that's that's how I go through the world these days.

00:05:04.404 --> 00:05:05.848
Okay, so let's start there for a second.

00:05:05.848 --> 00:05:09.947
Then, when you say human centric, what are you talking about?

00:05:09.947 --> 00:05:15.666
I mean, you gave some examples, obviously in stats and figures, in business, but like what actually is that?

00:05:15.666 --> 00:05:37.134
Because I feel like there's two different angles that connotation carries right when one is the softer woo, woo type let's meditate and hold hands and everybody take care of each other world peace, miss America speeches, you know all those kinds of things and the other is like what we?

00:05:37.134 --> 00:05:56.300
So I'm in the reserves in the Marine Corps now, but when we first spoke I was active duty and for anybody listening who's in a similar, I guess, circumstance, the US DOD has a very similar set of priorities where one, in a very literal sense of prioritization, one, is mission accomplishment and two is troop welfare.

00:05:56.300 --> 00:06:06.831
Okay, and I feel like when you're talking human centric anything, it's somewhere on that spectrum of troop welfare to Miss America speeches.

00:06:06.831 --> 00:06:09.519
So can we qualify a little bit?

00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:09.759
What do you?

00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:10.744
What do you actually mean?

00:06:10.744 --> 00:06:11.487
What are you talking about?

00:06:12.189 --> 00:06:13.012
We can qualify.

00:06:13.012 --> 00:06:22.805
I'm on the troop welfare end of the spectrum, not on the let's all sit in the break room and sing kumbaya and share our feelings, the Miss America end.

00:06:22.805 --> 00:06:24.372
That's not the end that I'm on.

00:06:24.372 --> 00:06:34.975
Although I talk about my mental health and I talk about my feelings as a speaker, I don't sit around in my private life, or certainly in my work life, and chat about these kinds of things.

00:06:35.535 --> 00:06:52.047
When I say human centric, I mean organizations that recognize we bring our whole messy selves to our lives and I may be working for you right now, but a hundred percent of my attention might not be on work.

00:06:52.047 --> 00:07:32.189
Maybe that's trauma, Maybe that's because I stayed up late last night watching the playoff game, but it's recognizing that we're all doing our best, most of us most of the time and our organizations aren't necessarily built always to respect that part of our lives and they expect we're at work and we're a hundred percent at work or we will always be on and I will answer the phone if you call me at 11 o'clock at night for my knowledge worker job that you can wait till nine o'clock tomorrow morning for I think we've got some pretty skewed expectations.

00:07:32.189 --> 00:07:40.223
I want us to get back to being compassionate and understanding of the humanness that we all bring to our jobs and to our lives.

00:07:41.608 --> 00:07:43.980
All right, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:07:43.980 --> 00:07:45.324
Thank, you.

00:07:45.365 --> 00:07:48.093
This message is from the US Department of Veterans Affairs.

00:07:48.093 --> 00:07:54.836
Va disability compensation is open to veterans with a disability rating of 10 percent or more.

00:07:54.836 --> 00:07:58.588
Veterans may qualify for more than $4,000 a month.

00:07:58.588 --> 00:08:05.045
Those with a disability rating of 10 percent or more also get free or low-cost VA health care.

00:08:05.045 --> 00:08:09.620
If you have a disability rating, you can apply for a rating increase.

00:08:09.620 --> 00:08:11.562
Learn more at va.

00:08:11.562 --> 00:08:13.543
gov/disability.

00:08:15.985 --> 00:08:23.490
I want us to get back to being compassionate and understanding of the humanness that we all bring to our jobs and to our lives.

00:08:24.444 --> 00:08:26.774
How do we do that, though?

00:08:26.774 --> 00:08:34.996
Because none of us is a mind reader, right, like I can only let's say if we work together, or you know what in this conversation I suppose we are.

00:08:34.996 --> 00:08:36.870
So let's say we are working together.

00:08:36.870 --> 00:08:43.427
I only know what you bring to this conversation based on what you vocalize, how you look, how you respond.

00:08:43.427 --> 00:08:48.111
You know non-verbal and verbal cues, but that's all I've got right.

00:08:48.111 --> 00:09:06.167
So for me to assume that you've got additional baggage or emotional mental strain, right Things on your mind, that you've got other things you're preoccupied with in a general sense, I think is pretty easy, right, people are worried about traffic and leaving that day and groceries or whatever, but that's it.

00:09:06.167 --> 00:09:13.890
So how could I, how do you recommend I take into account a little bit more specifically your humanity, then?

00:09:14.846 --> 00:09:15.107
Right.

00:09:15.107 --> 00:09:24.768
So I want to kind of take a step back and think on the broader organizational level and then I'll get back down to you and me On a certain level.

00:09:24.768 --> 00:09:36.630
So of course you have no idea what's going on with me and I'm not likely to share much if there's something serious going on with me, because that's not our role together right now.

00:09:36.630 --> 00:09:42.448
This is the job that you and I are doing together now, so I'm not going to share the thing that happened to me yesterday or last month.

00:09:42.448 --> 00:09:43.331
That's really stressful.

00:09:43.331 --> 00:10:08.692
Building an organization that's trauma sensitive, that is psychologically safe, building a space that's free from bullying, building a workspace where we support people to be authentic and vulnerable with each other Building an organization in that way creates the environment.

00:10:09.313 --> 00:10:12.078
It doesn't matter if I've been traumatized.

00:10:12.078 --> 00:10:15.634
I don't have to tell you I need to take some time off.

00:10:15.634 --> 00:10:17.511
I can just say I need to take some time off.

00:10:17.511 --> 00:10:24.378
I don't have to prove that something significant has happened to me to justify taking that time off.

00:10:24.378 --> 00:10:39.697
I am in a space where, if I wanted to share with my supervisor that I'm dealing with a particular trauma or a particular stressor, I would feel safe to do that and not be bullied, for example.

00:10:41.249 --> 00:10:53.230
I think the other thing that's really important, specifically when you're talking about people who deal with trauma, is enabling them to get the support and care they need without having to say they've been traumatized.

00:10:53.230 --> 00:10:59.554
My being able to tell you I can't work this afternoon.

00:10:59.554 --> 00:11:00.857
I know we've got this planned.

00:11:00.857 --> 00:11:01.586
I can't do it.

00:11:01.586 --> 00:11:11.907
You say, yes, I'll step in and help with the deliverable for the client or whatever our job is as individuals.

00:11:11.907 --> 00:11:17.057
It's about empathy and compassion and respect.

00:11:17.057 --> 00:11:28.990
It's really the same as an organization, but it's harder to build an organization that way because you've got people who have all sorts of different ideas about how to behave and what a workplace is and isn't.

00:11:30.754 --> 00:11:34.200
Okay, Before I jump in, so that's in a workplace environment.

00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:42.788
But now if we were to take that down to say two-person interpersonal type interaction, is it the same circumstance, the same way to handle a situation?

00:11:43.804 --> 00:11:44.870
It's essentially the same.

00:11:44.870 --> 00:11:53.289
I think there's something that my colleagues and I talk about and it's just a way to frame how you're thinking about something.

00:11:53.289 --> 00:12:05.027
Let's say that you and I are working on a project together and I am behaving weirdly and you don't understand why I'm ignoring you or why I'm not turning in my work like I'm supposed to.

00:12:05.027 --> 00:12:15.738
It's thinking about somebody, as in what happened to you, not what is wrong with you.

00:12:15.738 --> 00:12:24.652
Some people that might not seem like a big difference, but it really is, because what's wrong with you feels like you're judging me.

00:12:24.652 --> 00:12:30.638
What happened to you is something's going on and I'm curious.

00:12:30.638 --> 00:12:32.773
I want to know, I want to help.

00:12:32.773 --> 00:12:38.515
If I trust you and we have a good enough relationship, maybe I'll tell you what happened to me.

00:12:39.577 --> 00:12:41.910
Okay, I've got an example.

00:12:41.910 --> 00:12:53.245
Then I've got a lot of veterans, a lot of military families, obviously, that I'm close with, but also that are listeners of the show and, frankly, a lot also that have been contributors on the show.

00:12:53.245 --> 00:13:11.052
In that process, I think something among all the things that could be unique in military families, one thing that I'm pretty convinced is common, whether there's a military influence or inspiration or not teenagers.

00:13:11.052 --> 00:13:21.360
When you've got as a parent, when you've got a teenager, what do they call them Pre-tweens?

00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:24.490
I'm not sure Either way, let's just say nine to 18.

00:13:26.804 --> 00:13:36.586
As kids are growing up, they're obviously struggling with their own identities and, generally speaking, there's a lot more assertiveness in the military when it comes to personalities and personality types.

00:13:36.586 --> 00:13:40.014
At least that I've noticed in my experience, and there is outside the military.

00:13:40.014 --> 00:13:46.434
A common response that I received is how do you not know this?

00:13:46.434 --> 00:13:48.389
What's wrong with you, family and friends?

00:13:48.389 --> 00:13:52.894
Then, obviously, growing up in the military, you sort of it may as well be a handshake right.

00:13:52.894 --> 00:14:02.948
You start to get a feel for this type of prompting, these types of comments, as opposed to what were you taught in school.

00:14:02.948 --> 00:14:06.272
Maybe we can find a way to reteach this so it makes sense.

00:14:06.272 --> 00:14:08.769
How was this explained before?

00:14:08.769 --> 00:14:10.950
How can I better explain it now?

00:14:10.950 --> 00:14:12.788
Is that more what you're getting to?

00:14:13.566 --> 00:14:15.171
Yes, that's what I'm getting to.

00:14:15.171 --> 00:14:17.947
You just reminded me.

00:14:17.947 --> 00:14:30.677
I've had a couple of experiences of people finding out what happened to me and then drilling in with the questions of well, why didn't you do this?

00:14:30.677 --> 00:14:32.687
What do you mean?

00:14:32.687 --> 00:14:33.850
This is what happened to you.

00:14:33.850 --> 00:14:48.870
I had someone, not long after the bombing, really spend quite a long amount of time trying to get me to explain how I could have been standing where I was standing and not been physically injured, and asking all these detailed questions.

00:14:48.870 --> 00:14:51.677
Well, were any of the people next to you physically injured?

00:14:51.677 --> 00:14:54.205
How come you didn't get any shrapnel?

00:14:54.205 --> 00:15:02.490
I fully understand this person was curious, but I was also not in a place where I could really push back.

00:15:02.490 --> 00:15:20.847
This thing happened to me and I don't really want to tell you more and I can't really tell you more, but then being forced to explain my situation and why I was okay, versus saying anything in there like I'm so sorry this happened to you, what can I do to help?

00:15:21.965 --> 00:15:22.908
That's what I was going to say next.

00:15:22.908 --> 00:15:31.096
Just offering help of some kind, right, because a lot of us are fixers and so it's easier to try to jump to that conclusion.

00:15:31.736 --> 00:15:31.937
Yes.

00:15:31.937 --> 00:15:37.995
Well, for you fixers out there, I will tell you the people who may need fixing may need some help.

00:15:37.995 --> 00:15:41.052
We don't always know what we need.

00:15:41.052 --> 00:15:44.491
So when you say, can I do anything to help?

00:15:44.491 --> 00:15:49.897
Quite often, especially early on, with someone in my case, dealing with a trauma, I was like I don't know.

00:15:49.897 --> 00:15:54.272
I don't even know what's happening to me, so I have no idea what you could do to help.

00:15:54.272 --> 00:16:00.289
So if you offer a general offer of help and somebody says no, that doesn't mean they don't really want the help.

00:16:00.289 --> 00:16:03.894
It could just mean they don't know what they need in that moment.

00:16:03.894 --> 00:16:12.336
And you've probably heard this this is very common People talk about, after someone has a death in the family to offer something specific.

00:16:13.284 --> 00:16:16.053
Can I pick up the kids from school tomorrow for you?

00:16:16.053 --> 00:16:17.931
Can I go to the grocery store for you?

00:16:17.931 --> 00:16:24.577
So helping is very much appreciated, but we don't always know what we need help with.

00:16:24.577 --> 00:16:26.793
And if you offer something specific, we can say yes or no.

00:16:26.793 --> 00:16:32.716
I don't need you to pick up the kids tomorrow, but could you do X, Y or Z instead?

00:16:33.337 --> 00:16:38.288
I see it's sort of like the fine line between being direct and being abrasive or too forward about it.

00:16:38.288 --> 00:16:41.871
I guess, right, yeah, yeah, okay, all right, I'm with you, I'm with you.

00:16:41.871 --> 00:16:54.201
So a lot of those opportunities, though, I think only happen or only come around if we notice them, if we're looking for them, if we're paying attention, if we have a baseline for somebody's behavior.

00:16:54.201 --> 00:17:07.059
And you talked about organizations before, but events like in Boston during the marathon, there's way too many people to try to get a baseline on everybody, unless you showed up there with a group of friends, right?

00:17:07.059 --> 00:17:14.538
And so then all the other coworkers, family and friends of those individuals that weren't there, well then, they see you later.

00:17:14.538 --> 00:17:16.461
How do they know what to tie to?

00:17:16.461 --> 00:17:21.682
How do they know what to last year, right, cause nobody has the baseline of that event to know what it was like, right?

00:17:21.682 --> 00:17:23.646
So how do we work around this?

00:17:24.674 --> 00:18:03.140
So we work around it by building systems and organizations that are trauma-sensitive and trauma-informed and I use the term trauma-sensitive it's a version of trauma-informed, but there is an actual methodology for building trauma-informed healthcare organization, for example, where you don't re-traumatize people and there are specific steps to take, and so by building those organizations and by being trauma-sensitive ourselves, we're then creating an environment where you don't have to know that this is what happened to me, but I'm still in an environment where I feel safe to either share or not share.

00:18:03.140 --> 00:18:06.242
I feel comfortable getting the help that I need.

00:18:06.242 --> 00:18:08.720
I have access to the help that I need.

00:18:10.263 --> 00:18:12.681
Already focused to tight, we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:18:14.894 --> 00:18:21.039
Alrighty folks, if you're looking for more perspective and more podcasts, you can check out Transacting Value on Wreaths Across America Radio.

00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:24.704
Listen in on iHeartRadio, Audacy and TuneIn.

00:18:27.115 --> 00:18:37.359
We're, then, creating an environment where you don't have to know that this is what happened to me, but I'm still in an environment where I feel safe to either share or not share.

00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:40.482
I feel comfortable getting the help that I need.

00:18:40.482 --> 00:18:42.902
I have access to the help that I need.

00:18:44.174 --> 00:18:54.863
We've got all sorts of battles and operations and well, only a handful of wars I guess that US service members have been involved in.

00:18:55.595 --> 00:19:00.837
And then we come back and obviously we have some family members how was your trip?

00:19:00.837 --> 00:19:18.018
Which is fine and it's harmless, and it's curious it's not always kids, but the question comes up right and I feel like a lot of what you're describing at least this is how it's resonating with me a lot of what you're describing sounds an awful lot like getting back from a deployment that I really don't care to talk about but I probably should.

00:19:18.018 --> 00:19:26.786
How do you you said trauma-informed and trauma-sensitive, for example, you experienced the event right.

00:19:26.786 --> 00:19:33.261
So let's say, you could be the service member, you could be that individual and you're coming home, but whatever, you experienced the event.

00:19:33.261 --> 00:19:42.922
So it's now also on you to try to help curate the parameters of a trauma-sensitive and trauma-informed environment.

00:19:42.922 --> 00:19:47.502
That's a lot to ask when you're, like you said, you're in mid-transition yourself.

00:19:47.502 --> 00:19:55.400
So how do you balance or whoever you is in this example all of that if the environment wasn't prepped before you got there?

00:19:56.316 --> 00:19:58.703
You hold on for dear life and hope for the best.

00:19:58.703 --> 00:20:02.055
I had a few experiences afterwards.

00:20:02.055 --> 00:20:10.201
I was freelance writer at the time and had some clients and I and I missed a deadline and it was a pretty big.

00:20:10.201 --> 00:20:13.722
I was the first in a series for this project.

00:20:13.722 --> 00:20:25.282
So if I missed my deadline, like five other people missed their deadline, and the project manager that I was working with, I emailed and said, hey, I was at the finish line.

00:20:25.282 --> 00:20:33.055
I wasn't physically hurt, but it impacted me more than I could have imagined and I don't have the stuff for you and I don't know when I'm gonna get it to you.

00:20:33.758 --> 00:20:38.015
And I am someone who doesn't miss deadlines for the most part.

00:20:38.015 --> 00:20:48.970
And it was horrifying to me to type this to this man that I only knew over email and he wrote back six words that changed my life.

00:20:48.970 --> 00:21:01.035
He said I understand I was at Columbine and he never pressured me for the deadline.

00:21:01.035 --> 00:21:07.622
My missing that deadline meant I was gonna miss multiple deadlines and all of these people down the line were gonna miss deadlines.

00:21:07.622 --> 00:21:08.986
He never pressured.

00:21:08.986 --> 00:21:29.055
I know that he advocated for me on the client side for there not to be pressure for me to meet the deadlines and I eventually got myself back onto the schedule, but he never once complained about my work, never once pressured me to be moving faster, because he really did understand what was happening.

00:21:29.055 --> 00:21:33.026
That was a unique experience.

00:21:33.175 --> 00:21:47.507
I was also on a call with people who started talking about the bombing because it was a thing that had just happened in our city and people were scared and confused and afraid and I couldn't get off the call.

00:21:47.507 --> 00:21:49.035
Because of my role.

00:21:49.035 --> 00:21:50.500
It was important for me to be there.

00:21:50.500 --> 00:21:55.185
I also couldn't tell them to stop talking about it and it was awful to hear.

00:21:55.185 --> 00:21:57.055
But they weren't doing anything wrong.

00:21:57.055 --> 00:22:02.041
They were just doing a thing that you do after something terrible happens in your community.

00:22:02.041 --> 00:22:06.682
I don't even know if that addressed what you were asking me, but those are my two stories.

00:22:07.979 --> 00:22:12.035
Yeah, in a sense, right Like, we can't be entirely responsible for our own well-being.

00:22:12.035 --> 00:22:14.055
It's just not possible, right?

00:22:14.055 --> 00:22:21.849
Think about it like this If the saying it takes a village to raise a child has any degree of truth to it, it's just not possible to get into it.

00:22:21.849 --> 00:22:25.019
You're still just an older child, right?

00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:28.637
Right, it's like the village didn't go away when you became an adult.

00:22:28.637 --> 00:22:34.361
So there's no way we as individuals can be responsible for our own well-being.

00:22:34.361 --> 00:22:37.435
I don't think it's even possible.

00:22:37.876 --> 00:22:41.031
Even if there were an individual who was capable my little brother.

00:22:41.031 --> 00:22:43.478
I don't know where he heard it from, I can't remember now.

00:22:43.478 --> 00:22:47.178
Sorry, dude, but my little brother called it a personal board of directors.

00:22:47.178 --> 00:23:04.262
And so you basically have people that you allocate some degree of credibility and respect in cloud, whether they know it or not, and you sort of allow their opinions and their influence to positively help you develop and grow.

00:23:04.262 --> 00:23:07.979
And he brought that concept up to me just a couple of weeks ago.

00:23:07.979 --> 00:23:22.016
And, as you're describing this transformation that you've made, sitting here now, you don't strike me as somebody that is grief-stricken or isolated, stuck in your head, still in shock, unable to communicate.

00:23:22.016 --> 00:23:24.095
So you've obviously made some progress.

00:23:24.095 --> 00:23:27.439
How did you get through any and all of these issues.

00:23:27.439 --> 00:23:30.199
It's a lot of work, as in-depth as you want to be.

00:23:30.349 --> 00:23:35.759
I don't mean to pry, but yeah, no, no, I mean, at this point as we're recording this, it was almost 11 years ago.

00:23:35.759 --> 00:24:03.483
You know, I spent a lot of time just grieving, absolutely and not knowing what was happening to me, and I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress, which is essentially I mean, you know this through your work it's essentially where your body gets stuck in that fear response, and I have done a ton of work with therapists, with trauma counselors, with mindfulness.

00:24:03.483 --> 00:24:08.979
I've taken classes, meditated, you know, I really got into yoga afterwards.

00:24:08.979 --> 00:24:39.161
Like one of the things that was quite a surprise to me was, after this was feeling completely disconnected from my body and the number of times that I had a problem with my legs, they were painful or they wouldn't support me or something like that, which is interesting given the number of people with very catastrophic physical injuries and traumatic amputations of their legs.

00:24:39.161 --> 00:24:57.281
So then suddenly I'm in this position where I feel like my legs aren't working and I dealt with so much and didn't really share a lot about it when it was happening and have just gotten to a place where I'm okay.

00:24:57.871 --> 00:24:59.977
I still get triggered by things.

00:24:59.977 --> 00:25:06.872
There was a couple of years ago well, maybe pre COVID there was a surprise fireworks show.

00:25:06.872 --> 00:25:09.652
That was not on July 4th and I didn't know.

00:25:09.652 --> 00:25:26.257
It was fireworks and I was hyperventilating and panicking and running around and putting on my shoes and trying to decide if I should stay inside my place and die inside or if I should run outside and see what was happening and die outside.

00:25:26.257 --> 00:25:31.920
And then it became do I put my shoes on and run outside or do I run outside barefoot?

00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:48.696
And right before then, 10 minutes before that, I would have told you I'm great, I've done all this work, and part of the work for me is recognizing, a that it's work and, b that sometimes it's 12 steps forward and a couple steps back.

00:25:48.696 --> 00:26:00.220
And when I get triggered now for things like that, I have a whole toolbox of things that I do to take care of myself or reach out to somebody if I can't take care of myself.

00:26:01.369 --> 00:26:16.843
Something that stands out to me, as you were describing that and I'm pretty convinced I'm probably not the only service member that feels this way but there was a point in my life when I looked at a combat environment and said this is the top.

00:26:16.843 --> 00:26:25.857
This is like where all the stressors and confusion and disorientation, or whatever degree of stress and trauma applies here, culminates.

00:26:25.857 --> 00:26:27.133
This is the top.

00:26:27.133 --> 00:26:30.557
And again, this is in the past, me, right.

00:26:30.557 --> 00:26:37.816
And then you stop and you think well, anytime I hear something about any other type of event, please, that's it.

00:26:37.816 --> 00:26:39.875
That's all you went through.

00:26:39.875 --> 00:26:45.519
Yeah, I mean, man, who am I to put that on you?

00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:49.259
If anything, at what point in your life?

00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:54.141
Or at whatever point in your life, you went through these types of events, in your case, the marathon.

00:26:54.141 --> 00:27:01.481
But at whatever point in your life you go through these events and me having gone through mine, why would I not try to learn something from you?

00:27:01.481 --> 00:27:10.017
If I've heard everything, the one thing you say that might work for me might work for me and, frankly, the one thing you say that doesn't work for me might work for somebody else.

00:27:10.017 --> 00:27:11.820
If I say it differently, you know what I mean.

00:27:11.820 --> 00:27:19.377
But at that point we've all got this sort of shared I don't call it misery we do in the military, for anybody listening to shared misery breeds camaraderie.

00:27:19.377 --> 00:27:20.340
That's a saying.

00:27:20.950 --> 00:27:25.882
I'm not giving away any surprise endings here, but the gist is everybody embraces the suck.

00:27:25.970 --> 00:27:47.433
You see that on posters in some places, right, like, yeah, the mud's cold, everybody face dive, you know, and you just crawl right and I feel like it's the same sort of thing, like we look for that type of a community and that type of an environment, wittingly or otherwise, to try to find ways to support ourselves when we can't, and find that camaraderie or some degree of it.

00:27:47.875 --> 00:28:10.656
Again, right, for the same reason, veterans go to VFW or American Legion or listen to Wreaths Across America or any of these other types of outlets where I feel like you probably see this a lot in corporate environments too People that are just looking for an outlet in some degree of support and community without getting belittled or discarded, or what did you say earlier?

00:28:10.656 --> 00:28:17.357
We were invisible, and it's easy to do, obviously, when you get sucked into your routine.

00:28:17.357 --> 00:28:20.615
But you know, you don't see the things outside of your blinders.

00:28:20.615 --> 00:28:23.342
But you're an advocate, right?

00:28:23.342 --> 00:28:25.396
I mean, that's part of what you do, advocacy, right?

00:28:25.396 --> 00:28:36.378
Yeah, that is part of what I do, so you've got to be able to find a way to at least talk a little bit about some of these issues, and because nobody else knows until you explain it to somebody, right?

00:28:37.821 --> 00:28:40.390
All right, folks, sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

00:28:47.029 --> 00:28:49.775
This message is from the US Department of Veterans Affairs.

00:28:49.775 --> 00:28:59.872
Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer-related deaths among veterans, but screening can save lives because lung cancer is most treatable when caught early.

00:28:59.872 --> 00:29:05.652
For eligible veterans, annual lung cancer screening is free, with no copay.

00:29:05.652 --> 00:29:17.407
You may qualify for screening if you're 50 to 80 years old, you've smoked cigarettes for at least 20-pack years, you smoke cigarettes now or you've quit within the past 15 years.

00:29:17.407 --> 00:29:24.653
20-pack years equals one pack of cigarettes a day for 20 years or two packs a day for 10 years.

00:29:24.653 --> 00:29:28.063
Learn more about lung cancer screening at cancerva.

00:29:28.063 --> 00:29:32.207
gov or talk with your primary care provider.

00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:44.205
You're an advocate, right?

00:29:44.205 --> 00:29:45.409
I mean, that's part of what you do.

00:29:45.409 --> 00:29:46.250
Advocacy, right?

00:29:46.250 --> 00:29:48.686
Yeah, that is part of what I do.

00:29:48.686 --> 00:29:57.249
So you've got to be able to find a way to at least talk a little bit about some of these issues, because nobody else knows until you explain it to somebody, right?

00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:08.792
Yes, what's so interesting is that I have had people say you know, it's so amazing that you share your story on stage in front of all these people who you don't know.

00:30:08.792 --> 00:30:16.267
And when you're advocating for things, you kind of have to share your own lived experience so people understand where you're coming from.

00:30:16.267 --> 00:30:21.971
And I know that's important and I know that that's very difficult for people.

00:30:21.971 --> 00:30:33.048
It can be very difficult, but there's something about when I very first told my story publicly in front of an audience at an event, a friend invited me to share my story.

00:30:34.140 --> 00:31:01.612
When I realized there's value in sharing this story because for this moment when I'm telling you the story, I am not invisible like my experience and the experience of people like me and that's what drove me in the early days of speaking about this was people are hearing it and people are understanding it, and not everybody understands it, but a lot of people do.

00:31:01.612 --> 00:31:21.566
And there's so much value to me personally how it makes me feel and my ability to affect change in the world in sharing my story, that it's never been difficult to get up on a stage and talk about my story.

00:31:21.566 --> 00:31:26.832
Now, if you and I met for coffee and we didn't know each other, you would not hear this story.

00:31:26.832 --> 00:31:40.930
It is not something I talk about a great deal in my personal life, but it is something that, because it was so important to me you know I didn't have time to be afraid of public speaking Like I have to tell people.

00:31:40.930 --> 00:31:42.980
This is important, we need to talk about this.

00:31:42.980 --> 00:31:52.940
People need to know that trauma emotional trauma is real and all of that just made it so that it's not that hard for me to tell the story.

00:31:52.940 --> 00:31:56.169
It can be, but in general it's not.

00:31:57.381 --> 00:32:03.471
Well, man, you didn't have time to be afraid, basically because you finally built.

00:32:03.471 --> 00:32:04.913
Sounds like confidence.

00:32:04.913 --> 00:32:07.008
So yeah.

00:32:07.008 --> 00:32:09.778
So, ok, I'm going to ask you why.

00:32:09.778 --> 00:32:13.015
All right, this is a segment of the show called developing character.

00:32:13.015 --> 00:32:13.898
Developing character.

00:32:14.863 --> 00:32:18.886
I have two questions for anybody who's new to the show, obviously mine for you as well.

00:32:18.886 --> 00:32:25.773
This is essentially revolving around your value system that helped you get through some of this stuff.

00:32:25.773 --> 00:32:36.563
I look at value system as what we allow to refine our character, but what we pick up unwittingly as we grow through life, right?

00:32:36.563 --> 00:32:38.633
So my first question is when you were younger.

00:32:38.633 --> 00:32:46.340
Attribute this to whatever age you like, but when you were younger, what were some of the values that you were exposed to, that you grew up around, that?

00:32:46.340 --> 00:32:48.185
You sort of heard in the background.

00:32:48.185 --> 00:32:49.128
What was there?

00:32:50.141 --> 00:32:55.000
So one of the threads through my life has always been honesty and truth telling.

00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.211
I think that's something that I grew up knowing was very important.

00:32:59.211 --> 00:33:14.113
I also grew up knowing that hard work and focus were really important Not that I've always focused very well, but it was something that I knew was an important quality.

00:33:14.113 --> 00:33:31.292
And I say not giving up, but I don't mean that to the point of just hanging on when all hope is lost, but really knowing what you want and working towards it and not giving up in that respect.

00:33:32.561 --> 00:33:39.807
That sounds awfully similar to me as to how you overcame a lot of this, but I'm sure we'll get there in a second, so let me not get ahead of you.

00:33:39.807 --> 00:33:44.431
My second question, though since then, right, that's you growing up.

00:33:44.431 --> 00:33:47.205
That's itty-bitty Manya.

00:33:47.205 --> 00:33:48.931
Now to adult Manya, right.

00:33:48.931 --> 00:33:51.910
What are some of your values now, if they've changed at all?

00:33:52.561 --> 00:34:14.835
Well, honesty remains a very important quality or very important value to me, both in myself being honest and in others being honest with me, and authenticity and vulnerability are important qualities to me as well, and that I can tell you I learned early on.

00:34:14.835 --> 00:34:18.000
After the bombing, I shared my story because I knew it was important.

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:34.000
I wanted people to hear it, but I shared it in several written formats anonymously, with the permission of the folks who were sharing it, because I was afraid of people hearing and I was having this mental health impact when it wasn't the story we were hearing.

00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:44.871
I was embarrassed that this is how I was dealing with the trauma, that I couldn't get over it, and at some point I realized that there was a dishonesty in that.

00:34:45.681 --> 00:34:59.070
If I want people to talk about the mental health, if I want to remove the stigma from this kind of trauma, then I need to put my name and my face to the story.

00:34:59.070 --> 00:35:08.686
I need to face the judgment and the stigma head-on, or I'm actually just reinforcing that.

00:35:08.686 --> 00:35:11.652
There's something to be embarrassed about sharing this kind of story.

00:35:11.652 --> 00:35:43.940
And that's when the friend asked me to speak and I realized, yes, I need to stand up and own my story and it's not necessarily been a smooth ride from that moment, because people have said things and unkind things about my experience and the fact that I talk about my mental health, but it remains so much of a core value to me that honesty and integrity and being willing to be.

00:35:43.940 --> 00:35:48.170
If I'm asking other people to be vulnerable, I need to be willing to be vulnerable.

00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:52.168
Well, clearly I can't speak for anybody else, but I'm proud of you.

00:35:52.168 --> 00:35:54.010
Congratulations, thank you.

00:35:54.231 --> 00:35:55.000
I appreciate that.

00:35:55.380 --> 00:36:00.972
Yeah, I think, don't get me wrong, there is definitely a stigma around mental health and being able to communicate about it.

00:36:00.972 --> 00:36:03.585
But I'll tell you what, Manya you go back.

00:36:03.585 --> 00:36:13.110
I don't even know now, only a couple months, maybe six, seven months to this point of us recording my full name wasn't even on these episodes.

00:36:13.110 --> 00:36:21.980
Yeah, I wasn't even sure how much distance did I want, how much acceptance of my own story did I want?

00:36:21.980 --> 00:36:32.311
Like you hit it, that sort of imposter syndrome, maybe even self-shaming, some degree of disappointment.

00:36:32.311 --> 00:36:41.773
It is tough, but you know what, if courage were easy, it wouldn't be popular as something to aim for.

00:36:41.773 --> 00:36:43.907
It wouldn't have the value it does.

00:36:44.884 --> 00:36:48.865
Absolutely, man, I think what you're doing well.

00:36:48.865 --> 00:36:51.371
More importantly, what you've done is huge.

00:36:51.371 --> 00:36:53.681
Thank you, yeah, absolutely.

00:36:53.681 --> 00:37:00.474
Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not the me I was a decade ago, but I am still me.

00:37:00.474 --> 00:37:04.409
In the same sense, you're still you, right.

00:37:04.409 --> 00:37:10.789
So the challenges and obstacles that you've had to work through, I may see as insurmountable.

00:37:10.789 --> 00:37:12.893
Conversely, I may see as next to nothing.

00:37:12.893 --> 00:37:15.686
Everybody's going to see this stuff differently.

00:37:15.686 --> 00:37:28.987
So I guess one of my last questions, as you're working in a corporate environment or as you're working with families, in a family at the grocery store, with the lady behind you, whatever applies, and you're talking about some of these topics as they arise.

00:37:28.987 --> 00:37:48.365
How do you recommend and I'm not saying this as a familiar environment, I'm saying this as a room of relative strangers, just a public space, okay, how do you recommend we start the step one, the step two, the step three phase of trying to overcome and communicate?

00:37:48.365 --> 00:37:50.561
How do you recommend we start that process?

00:37:51.315 --> 00:38:03.230
Well, I wanna say take a deep breath, whether literally or figuratively, and just listen and be open and compassionate.

00:38:03.230 --> 00:38:07.101
That wasn't really a one word answer, but I would say lead with compassion.

00:38:07.101 --> 00:38:15.001
And I would say that I was a generally compassionate person 11 and a half or 12 years ago.

00:38:15.001 --> 00:38:25.565
My ability to have compassion for other human beings is exponentially more than it was before the bombing.

00:38:25.565 --> 00:38:34.003
I've worked so much on understanding that other people are in pain and sometimes I just need to shut up and listen.

00:38:35.735 --> 00:38:38.599
That is powerful, assuming we realize it.

00:38:39.101 --> 00:38:49.465
Obviously, yeah, and then we're all in different paths and different places in our self-awareness and our ability to be compassionate.

00:38:49.534 --> 00:38:55.280
Yeah, yeah, everybody's growing at different paces, which is pretty wild when you think about it, because we're all facing the same stressors.

00:38:56.021 --> 00:38:56.364
I know.

00:38:57.938 --> 00:39:02.181
All of the laws of physics are totally defeated when you talk about how they're interpreted.

00:39:02.181 --> 00:39:06.440
Gravity affects everyone the same way, but somehow that guy's taller than I am.

00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:16.603
I think it's the same circumstance when two people could have been at the marathon you and the person next to you and both interpreted the circumstances totally different.

00:39:17.315 --> 00:39:18.920
Absolutely, and in fact did.

00:39:18.920 --> 00:39:27.262
The friend who was sitting next to me a couple of weeks later literally just brushed herself off and was like I'm good, and she was, Hmm.

00:39:27.262 --> 00:39:31.204
Well, and my path was completely different.

00:39:31.534 --> 00:40:17.885
Yeah, yeah, maybe it's upbringing, maybe it's worldview and perspective, I don't know but I'm glad you're turning it into something that's inspiring people and educating people and, like I said in the beginning, instigating people to educate other people, because I prefer to focus more on society and culture, I suppose, than mental health and respective to my audience and anybody else that happens to hear these podcasts aside, I think the amount of inspiration you're able to put behind your message, because you're authentic and because you're not afraid to be well vulnerable to a degree I suppose People are still strangers, but you're not putting your social out there on a poster behind you but, to a degree, to be vulnerable, I think it's awesome what you're doing and how you're putting it together.

00:40:17.885 --> 00:40:27.240
So I suppose now my final question is if anybody wants to get ahold of you, if anybody wants to find out more information, listen to your show, anything.

00:40:27.240 --> 00:40:28.505
Where do people go?

00:40:28.505 --> 00:40:29.396
How do they do it?

00:40:30.295 --> 00:40:33.119
Couple good places to reach me my website, which is manyachylinski.

00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:34.342
com.

00:40:34.342 --> 00:40:36.940
You can find my podcast there.

00:40:36.940 --> 00:40:40.119
You can also find it on Apple Podcast Notes on Resilience.

00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:47.202
And my main social these days is LinkedIn, so please connect with me there.

00:40:47.202 --> 00:40:48.697
Love what I do when.

00:40:48.697 --> 00:40:53.003
I love hearing from other people who have similar experiences.

00:40:53.003 --> 00:40:59.583
I love hearing from people who want to figure out how to do something like this in their organization.

00:40:59.583 --> 00:41:02.802
It's strange, but I love talking about this kind of stuff.

00:41:03.755 --> 00:41:11.862
I think it's only strange because it's uncommon, but yeah, perhaps it definitely needs to be, I think, more public.

00:41:11.862 --> 00:41:22.164
Yeah, man, wouldn't it be nice just to have one I don't know news station that was a bit more civil, or one conversation that wasn't quite so divisive, you know, and-.

00:41:22.835 --> 00:41:31.101
The number of times I've come up with the new media company that's gonna deal with this, and I have all these ideas, so one day we'll make it work.

00:41:31.914 --> 00:41:37.498
Well then, we're definitely gonna stay in touch, because I got to nest this podcast somewhere, but yeah, I guess.

00:41:37.498 --> 00:41:51.804
But, that being said, I really do appreciate you making time in your evening to sit down and talk and, like I said, giving me the opportunity to redeem our last conversation and just talk a little bit more in depth about some of this stuff, because it is so undervalued.

00:41:51.804 --> 00:41:54.463
So I love the opportunity to have you on the show.

00:41:54.463 --> 00:41:55.277
So thank you again.

00:41:55.940 --> 00:41:56.382
Thank you.

00:41:56.382 --> 00:42:02.842
It's a pleasure talking with you and I don't think you had anything to redeem from last time, but I'm so glad we got to have this conversation.

00:42:03.775 --> 00:42:05.782
Thank you to our show partners and folks.

00:42:05.782 --> 00:42:10.559
Thank you for tuning in and appreciating our value as we all grow through life together.

00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:15.981
To check out our other conversations, merchandise or even to contribute through feedback.

00:42:15.981 --> 00:42:19.117
Follows time, money or talent, and let us know what you think of the show.

00:42:19.117 --> 00:42:21.094
Please reach out on our website, transactingvaluepodcast.

00:42:21.094 --> 00:42:23.382
com.

00:42:23.382 --> 00:42:30.818
We stream new episodes every Monday at 9 am Eastern Standard Time through all of your favorite podcasting platforms and we'll meet you there.

00:42:30.818 --> 00:42:34.117
Until next time, that was Transacting Value.