And I told 1 of my first pluses because he was a little disappointed in the results of a test. And I told him that, you know, you pay me a lot of money to tell you the truth. You can't pay me enough to lie.

That's been kind of 1 of my guiding principles in my career as a tester. Alrighty folks. Welcome back to transacting value where we're encouraging dialogue from different perspectives to unite over shared values.

Our theme for season 4 is intrinsic values. So what your character is doing when you look yourself in the mirror.

Now if you're new to the podcast, welcome. And if you're a continuing listener, welcome back. Today, we're talking our March core values of accomplishment, consistency, and endurance with mister Joe Trulizy.

So folks, without further ado, I'm Porter. I'm your host, and this is transacting value. Alright, Joe. How are you doing? I'm doing real good, Porter. Thanks for inviting me on your podcast. Yeah, man.

Of course. I appreciate you taking the time out of your day too just to sit out and talk for a little bit. I'm sure you had about as long a work day as anybody else. So if not longer, Yeah. I'm not Toting Bails and listening breaks.

I'm pretty much sitting in front of my computer all day, so it's not too arduous. No. You say that, but, you know, after a certain amount of eye fatigue and mental strain, any day can get long even if it is just a computer.

So I think that still counts for quite a bit. I enjoy what I do, and I work for the Marine Corps, and I'm supporting the guys that are out in the field.

So it's a rewarding job. Well, good. I personally appreciate what you're doing. I've used a lot of the stuff that you've helped and had a hand in coming up with in fielding.

So before we get to some of that and the last conversation we had in some of those topics, especially for our listeners that can't see you. Let's start with some relateability, Joe. So who are you?

You know, where are you from? What kinds of things have helped shape your perspective? Okay. Well, I'm Joachieve. I I was born and raised and Port Lauderdale area in Florida. I went to the Naval Academy and served a career in the navy.

I retired Naval officer now, but 1 way or another, I found myself back to the Marine Corps as a marine civilian. I do testing and evaluation of For the navy, I did weapon systems and ships.

For the marines, I'm specifically working on testing new training systems. Well, so I don't wanna jump into anything to, I don't know, specific or what's the word proprietary, I guess.

But for the sake of this conversation, taking all of your experience in the DOD and then just throughout your life putting all that stuff together.

What I'd really like to focus on and what I'm more specifically curious about concerning transacting value is of all the values you've come across in your life throughout your experience, your career, your travels, your deployments, all the above coworkers, whatever.

I wanna dive into yours a little bit. And how your perspective and your character has grown because of some of those things.

And then I'd like to tie it into some of the projects that you've worked on, and I can give you a little bit of first hand feedback too because some of that stuff's pretty cool.

So, Joe, if I could, when we're, I guess, just starting out on this conversation, when you and I talked last, we talked a lot about your career in the Naval Academy and a lot of these training simulators and other things that I've had Well, the flip side perspective of working in compared to yours while I was in the infantry as well.

So before we get there, let me start with you. This is a segment of the show I call developing character, you know, developing character. Alright.

So this is gonna be 2 questions. Where as vulnerable in-depth as you're willing to be, we're talking past tense and then present tense. Alright. So the first question, What were some of your values growing up? Let's say as a teenager.

Well, that's easy. My dad was a police officer as I was growing up. He he was pretty senior level police officer, and he instilled the characteristics of honesty and integrity, all through my childhood and into high school.

So I think my biggest influence was my dad and my mom, she held up appelled those values also.

Early in high school, I decided I wanted to go to the Naval Academy, and I sat down with a recruiter and my guidance counselor and my parents living room 1 Saturday morning and figured out what the academy looks for.

And I spent 4 years in high school taking all the boxes. So I was pretty focused and spent 4 years of high school making it so that they couldn't say no. Yeah.

So it sounds like 8 years' worth of the naval academy though. Yeah. A lot of ways. And then, of course, in the navy, look at me when we had the owner system there. And that was easy for me because I kinda grew up with those values.

And then also my career in the Navy, I found that integrity and honesty were were very important you know, integrity is kind of doing the right thing even if no 1 is looking.

And I kind of ran my career in that foundation. Well, that makes it easy.

I mean, not not to say that within the DOD, you're gonna get told to do things that are the wrong things to do or the shadier things to do when people aren't watching, but you know, it it makes it easier to have a compass.

Right. The rule is you have to follow lawful orders. If a order is not lawful, you don't have to follow it. And fortunately, I don't think I was ever given an unlawful order, so and it was never put in that position, I I guess.

Joe, I got a question for you. Based on your experience and sort of worldview, you said lawful order, right, not to pick apart UCMJ considerations here, but a lawful and legal aren't necessarily always the same things.

Right? So how do you qualify what is a lawful order? Like morally based? Legally based, what does that mean? Well, both. I mean, if my boss told me to go steal something, you know, obviously, that's not a lawful order.

But like I said, I don't think I was ever putting that quite in that position where I had to decide. But as the litmus test, I guess, I would use is if he's asking me to do something that's a crime, clearly, that's not a lawful order.

I guess it's more legal based. I have certain morals that, you know, I grew up with my parents and my church. I can say pretty confidently nobody ever asked me to violate those but I would have to think hard if they did.

Yeah. But at least it's been in my experience that along the same lines, Nobody's actually come out and said, hey, I don't know.

We need you to do these illegal acts. Right? It's it's not that simple, I guess, in my experience when things like that get brought up. It's usually more more of a inference.

Right, or an implication. Right? And and deploying around the world, which I'm sure over 20 plus years you did, at least once. You get to see all sorts of different cultures and backgrounds and things.

So, well, 1 culture may view as normal, another culture may view as taboo. Has there been any of that that you thought really stood out in your career? Well, you know, I see the things that Taylor see when they pull into a port.

And, you know, there's certain temptations and the things there. You know, as an officer on the ship, I had to set an example for the crew So it was a combination of my own personal values and that responsibility to set a good example.

That I I was able to stay out of some of the shenanigans that the sailors would be tempted with.

Later in my career, I got into the testing and evaluation field. And I did that as a naval officer and then continued as a contractor for a lot of years.

And now I'm a government civilian. And in the test world, it's my job to test out equipment and give my unvarnished opinion as to whether the contractor met the requirements or not.

And I told 1 of my first pluses because he was a little disappointed and the results of a test. And I told him that, you know, you pay me a lot of money to tell you the truth, but you can't pay me enough to lie.

That's been kinda 1 of my guiding principles in my career as a tester. Like that. Well, so, obviously, honesty and integrity are still important to you. So what are some other values that you try to live by now then presently?

I'm very involved in my church, so I you know, like to be active and support all the principles of my church and bring some of the gospel to people who are unchurged in 1 way or another.

So that's very important to me. But I'm still a tester, so that's basically what I do for the marines is We come out with a new system and it's my job to tell them whether it's ready for prime time or not.

Already folks sit tight and we'll be right back on transacting value. Did you know that children who do chores to earn their allowance have more respect for finance and more of a drive for financial independence?

Did you know that families who complete tasks together have stronger bonds? Did you know that Cognition, sense of self, and anxiety all improve people have regular interactions with nature.

Imagine what instilling, self esteem, resilience, family teamwork, and an authorized sense of self could do for the growth of each generation, no matter the temptation.

At Copenhagen Farm, that's just another Tuesday. Wanna learn how to homestead or just more effectively develop your character for an unknown future.

Follow our direct message on Instagram at hoveredclock or farm. Watch it happen in real time. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others, a foolish man learns from his own.

I'm still a tester, so that's basically what I do for the marines is we come out with a new system. It's my job to tell them whether it's ready for primetime or not.

A lot of the stuff that you and I discussed in terms of, you know, training simulations and training exercises and the dynamic and the format and application of what you guys are trying to get across.

Also for anybody listening involves cultural considerations, maybe role players, maybe physical structures and facilities. We're not talking just video games. Or just electronic testing platforms.

Right? So, Joe, how much of your experience would you say goes into your perspective, vetting some of these training factors like culture or, I don't know, empathy or other sorts of values and perspectives.

What's been interesting to me, I've always worked on Navy systems, you know, ships and missiles and guns.

And coming to the marines, I had to learn a lot about land warfare because, you know, when we're on the ships, we're out offshore, and it all pretty much looks the same.

But the Marines have to get right down there in among the the villages.

So you mentioned role players. That's 1 thing we do. We hire people to be actors and speak different languages and even have smell generators in some of the training facilities smells like a real place.

But on those regards, I really depend a lot on the marines who have been there and done that.

We hire what we call subject matter experts to advise us on the realism of truck train or should we get guys who are doing the trucks and the guys who go into the villages, how good are the role players, and what does the marketplace look like compared to marketplace and whatever country we're trying to simulate.

So I really depend a lot on the the marines who have been there and done that.

So not to trivialize it at all, but it it reminds me a lot of so when I was in college and for anybody listening, I sort of got started creatively apply my perspective in the theater department, which eventually evolved into primarily more set design than acting.

And Joe, a lot of what you described in sounds like set design considerations in the theater department, ensuring you build a framework physically, mentally, emotionally, morally, whatever.

That your consumer in our case was an audience, in your case now being the Marine Corps is able to feel like they're actually there. Is that as difficult as it sounds?

Yeah. It is. It's very difficult. That's why I even mentioned the smell generators. That was kind of interesting thing that I found because in my travels overseas, it's it's very important. There's a different smell in each place.

And even today, I get with of a certain smell and it reminds me of a place I've been. So we actually create those smells for the simulated thirties and we populate it with people of the ethnicity of wherever we're trying to stimulate.

And then, of course, we throw in the little tricky things like, you know, bad guys popping out and shooting at the marines. And a lot of them, what those immersive trainers are all about is to help the marines make the right decision.

As to whether to shoot somebody or not. So we have a insurgents sprinkled among the the roleplaying actors who represent the populace there.

So it's a very, very important skill that a marine can learn stateside in 1 of those simulated cities before he has to go out and do the real thing?

Well, all the more reason, the realism of the role players is a more important factor to consider.

We had over the last couple of years, not recently, but I guess you could say, within the last couple of years, we had an opportunity to go out to Southern California and conduct some of this training.

And it's a lot like, I guess, with some listeners, my view, is that scene from the first men in black where Will Smith goes in and ends up shooting the girl, carrying the textbooks, instead of the aliens on the traffic light or any of these other scenes from the beginning of that movie, and as a parallel.

It's a lot like that. Right? But not quite so easy or hyperbolic to identify the differences.

You know, when we're talking an insurgent environment, Joe, I'm curious your perspective here. When we're talking in an insurgent environment, that sort of baseline is blended.

Everything from the difference between lights and shadows and how you interpret those things, the sounds you hear, the smells like you just brought up, but also cultural considerations.

Right? How aware is the infantry unit in this example with the cultural considerations and nuances of what might stand out, what might be forced or what the baseline is compared to any other anomalies.

And I don't know how you can fabricate those things well enough to ever actually mirror a real world 1 to 1. Well, a lot of the role players we hire are from those countries.

So they came from that culture. So they helped to create a realistic cultural environment too. But, again, we depend on the experts that have lived and breathed in those areas to help us make things realistic.

Well, so a lot of that I imagine has to be on Well, in my opinion, for example, any particular culture is gonna have certain taboo topics, certain linguistic changes and challenges and dialects, and you know, all the things that make a culture and a society function, but that also includes the value systems of the individuals, the morals of those respective societies and how they conduct themselves around each other too.

Right? So is that part of some simulations you guys consider as well?

Yeah. I think we try and make everything, like I mentioned, the marketplaces and the bartering that goes on and, you know, we're not familiar with that here in the US, but overseas, it's kind of a way of life.

And and there's certain things you do just out of habit here that would be very offensive in another country.

Like, in a lot countries if you show the bottoms of your shoes, that's the worst insult you could possibly give someone. Already folks sit tight and we'll be right back on transacting value.

Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to George Washington in 17 87 that agriculture is our wisest pursuit because it will, in the end, contribute most to wealth, good morals, and happiness.

Did you know that even at a nearly 1000000000 dollar valuation, Farmers Markets nationwide they'll authentically serve their local markets as direct to consumer, farm fresh models of Freedom, self reliance, and teamwork, At the Keystone Farmers Market in Odessa, Florida, those same ideals also cultivate an agretourism experience preserving the old ways of wholesome family oriented sustainable growth of produce and people.

For premium quality produce at affordable prices, opportunities for the kiddos to feed the baby cows, or to simply wander the garden and watch your future meals grow, visit Keystone Farmers Market on Facebook, or come by in person 12615 Carbon Springs Road, Keystone Farmers Market, the place with the boiled peanuts.

And there's certain things you do just out of habit here that would be very offensive in another country like in a lot of countries, if you show the bottoms of your shoes, that's the worst insult you could possibly give someone.

And, you know, we cross our legs and don't think anything of it and show the bottom of our shoes.

So we do have experts that teach us those things, and then it's our job to train the marines on, you know, you don't wanna go into a village, everybody smiling, and then you do something and notchalantly that, you know, turns them into an enemy all of a sudden.

So it's very important skill. Yeah. Social awareness. I think goes a long way. Even here in America, don't get me wrong.

Maybe it's just a little bit less popularly discussed, but kids now because there's a greater reliance on technology and digital gaming, for example, have a greater chance and there's no empirical data that I possess to defend this point.

This is just my opinion, but there's a greater likelihood that paying attention to those social nuances is gonna dissipate in person. Right? Because they're not interacting with people as often as well, I don't know.

I did when I was a kid or you did decades ago when you were a kid. Right? So I think the difference has to be how the adults in the room, us, you guys, as you're building simulations, you know, as parents, grandparents, whatever.

Approach those topics. That it may be just the game now, but think about the real world implications of what's actually happening. Do you find you've got to approach a lot of your assessments from a similar angle?

Well, I I can't speak for what the marine's doing there to But I know the Navy, when we would pull into a particular country, we would usually get somebody from the consulate or the embassy would come down and teach us those things, hey, you don't wanna do this here.

And, you know, be careful in Turkey. You don't wanna get on this statue of Editarker, you'll be in jail forever.

Mhmm. You know, you don't wanna insult the local heroes. The embassy would teach us those things, and it was up to us as officers while we're out on liberty to kinda watch over what the crew is doing.

I'm not sure how the marines do that because I've never done a deployment with some marines, but I'm sure they have something very similar.

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot more polished examples, but the easiest 1 that comes to mind, for example, if we had to go, well, let's say, if we were riding alongside with the Navy and we had a port call, Right?

We get a safety brief before we go out.

In my experience, we got a safety brief before we went out, and it opened with, don't add or subtract from the population. You know, and there's there's a lot of other considerations and phrases I think that could be in there as well.

But everything from sort of that trivial of an example like, go out and have a good time, but be mature, think about what you're doing as you're doing it, or ideally before you do it.

But, you know, there's also like you brought up earlier, the more subtle considerations I was in Singapore a few years ago. And is it just don't spit on the grout?

Don't litter. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I remember the story about that teenager who littered and they camed him. Yeah. It's a total different way of life, but It's different traveling in the military than it is traveling as a tourist.

Even though conceptually, they're the same thing, you're still just Well, a tourist. Right? Right. And as a tourist, you're representing yourself, but as a military person, you're representing the the service in the country.

So I always watch out for the sailors who are, you know, architectural, ugly American because they tend to do that. They forget about where they are. And, you know, our job as officers to mitigate that or stop it.

Well, I mean, in part, it's our job as in listed service members as well to do the exact same thing, right, and look out for each other. And in some cases, look out for some of the junior officers.

And as a entire organization, the DOD, I think, has to continually refine and ensure that it pays attention to how those things are done and the sort of military aspect of diplomacy isn't just in combat.

Right? A lot of the time it's in polos and and khakis. Yeah. Exactly. So, Joe, when you're putting together a lot of these or I guess, when you're vetting a lot of these training simulations, what kinds of things are you looking for?

Or this was a success, not to evaluate the unit, but, like, as an evaluation, like, alright, this is gonna work out well.

Let's stick with this and sustain this. Well, I can say in in the Navy, I was testing missiles for instance, and we we issued a a surface to air missile at a drone based likely an aerial target.

And that was pretty easy. You know, if the target blows up and falls in ocean, do you know who it was pretty successful? With things like the truck driver trainers or, you know, underwater egress escape trainers, egress trainers?

It's a little less clear cut in those. So, again, we depend on the subject matter experts to tell us Yeah. This truck feels like a real truck or maybe it it turns a little too sharply compared to the real truck.

I feel the bumps a little more in this trainer than I would in a real truck. So it it really depends on the subject matter experts to help us fine tune these systems.

I can go in there and make sure that you hit a bump in the truck and you feel the truck move or you flip the headlights on and you can see the headlights shining on a simulated scene.

But to know whether the lights are too bright or too dim compared to the real truck, I need 1 of those subject matter experts to look at it. So we really depend on those guys.

Guys and girls, I should say. Yeah. Well, okay. So are you just vetting these systems, or are you ever actually able to give your feedback to some of the marines as well and have, like, firsthand direct oversight?

Where that comes into play is when we set the original requirements. Every system we buy, we've got a list of things it has to do and how well it has to do it. Already folks sit tight and we'll be right back on transacting value.

Alrighty, folks. Here are transacting value. We write and produce all the material for our podcast in how game perspective alongside you, our listeners, and exchange vulnerability and dialogue with our contributors every Monday morning.

But for distribution, most brought a platform to use. You wanna know how popular you are in Europe or how Apple is a preferred platform to stream your interviews?

Most probably can do that. You wanna stream up multiple players through an RSS or custom feed or even have references and resources to take your podcast professionalism, authenticity, and presence to a wider audience?

Buzz Brock can do that too. Here's how. Start with some gear that you already have in a quiet space.

If you wanna upgrade, BuzzFeedspreads has tons of guides to help you find the right equipment at the right price. BuzzFeedspreads your show listed in every major your podcast platform.

You'll get a great looking podcast website, audio players that you can drop into other websites, detailed analytics to see how people are listening, tools to promote your episodes, and more.

Podcasting isn't hard when you have the right partners. The team of Buzz Broward is passionate about helping you succeed. Join over a hundred thousand podcasters already using Buzzproud to get their message out to the world.

Plus, following the link in the show notes, lets Buzzproud know we sent you. Gets you a 20 dollar credit if you sign up for a paid plan and to help support our show. You want more value for your values. Busbrough can do that too.

Where that comes into play is when we set the original requirements. Every system we buy, we've got a list of things it has to do and how well it has to do it. And things like meantime between failures, you know, as far as reliability.

So we get together with some of the user representatives that represent the the guys that are actually gonna have to use this, and we collaborate on what the system has to do before we ever put out the request for proposals.

And if you do a bad job of writing requirements, you're gonna get a a system that doesn't perform very well. So the requirements are really important. Well, when you're talking requirements to performance, I mean, that's the people too.

Right? Because I've assumed not just specific to the Marine Corps. A lot of the service members that come through these training iterations over the last, let's call it, 3 decades of your professional career.

Have to have training before they go to your training. Right? It's not just show up and you guys are the first line of defense and and exposure.

No. They should be familiar. But, like, the truck's in simulator I mentioned, when we get a brand new fresh cut marine right out of high school, He's never driven a 15 ton combat vehicle before.

So we actually make him drive the simulator. Like, I I think it's 20 or 30 hours before he ever sees a real truck. So we are getting guys that are pretty much fresh that they have never had this training before.

Now, obviously, they had some classroom training before they ever get to the simulator. So, you know, they know a little bit, but they've never actually got up there in turners, and it's such a heavy vehicle.

Yeah. What about the people interactions? For example, let's let's use the 1 you just brought up, not the convoy type simulators, but like an immersion trainer. Right?

You're still getting people fresh out of high school, the privates, the PFCs that are maybe not as adept or at all familiar with working through an interpreter, other cultural considerations, let alone tactics and combative stresses in those environments on top of diplomacy, how do you guys approach those factors?

Well, we got a thing in the in the business.

You crawl, then you walk, then you run. And in the case of an immersion trainer, for instance, you're putting a a marine in full combat gear in a vehicle Dunkin' in a pool and flipping it upside down.

He's gotta find his way out. Obviously, that's very dangerous. So the Marines have a small breathing device. It's kind of like a tiny little scuba tank -- Mhmm. -- that they can breathe on for several minutes.

And what we'll do is we put them in just a chair with a couple of guys in the pool and strap them into the chair, give them the breathing device, and pull them upside down, and then pull them back up.

He's never underwater for any great amount of time or any great depth. And you get them used to breathing from that device underwater, in a very safe environment before you ever put them in the vehicle and try it for real.

So that crawl, walk, and run as expect is really important in in almost any trainer? That underwater egress trainer you're describing was so I I went through it a a couple times now.

But the very first time probably about a decade ago give or take and it it was also consequently the first time I had ever had some sort of, like, scuba type breathing device even in a pool, let alone open water anywhere else.

And I remember the chair, and I think even before that, it was just get used to being upside down with the thing.

So, you know, you put your feet on the side of the pool and touch the back of your head to the wall kind of thing and then the chair. But a lot of the incremental progressions as beneficial as I thought they were.

Man, I was nervous. I remember the very first time when we got into the trainer itself, and I sat down and I buckled in and, you know, you you got all your stuff situated or whatever. And then it lowers that into the water.

And as soon as it went upside down, like my heart was already racing. I was nervous. I was like, man, like, I'm not gonna forget what to do. It's almost too simple to forget that. What got me the most?

Was the negative buoyancy of being upside down and then to have to exhale before I could inhale. So -- Right. -- you have to continue to breather, you risk an embolism. Even in 4 feet of death change, you could embolize.

So that's an important thing. But, you know, I went through the trainer as a midshipman. And to this day, when I get into an airplane or a helicopter, First thing I do is look around at the emergency exits.

Yeah. Figure out how I'm gonna get there. And that's an important skill that we train them in. I'm sure you probably experienced that in the dunker.

You can just swim around blindly looking for a door. You find the exit and figure out how you're gonna get there. You can upside down. Mhmm. Yeah. Plan it out before you even get in the water, basically.

Right. Yeah. And that's a valid point too. Just for the sake of anybody listening, this is not as barbaric as it might sound trapped underwater in a metal truck or something other.

There's all sorts initials in place and safeties in place. They safety divers down there too. If you panic, they'll get you up.

Yeah. It's a total controlled environment. But there are still human factors as individuals going through the training evolution that make it more individually tailored potential considerations and problems.

So -- Yeah. -- it it is a factor, but know, the human factor, all things considered, you can't get rid of it. All you can really do is accommodate for it.

I think in a training environment, in a real world situation, on a combat deployment, on the ground, in whatever scenario you wanna apply this to, but or anybody listening that doesn't have necessarily military exposure or experience, you can't do away with the human factor.

Right?

In my opinion, if anything, even as parents for that matter, if that's an easier way to relate this point, we have to be able to try to showcase as many human fact or oriented experiences to our kids or to ourselves in order to grow as people.

And I think the DoD does a great job of doing that. Already folks sit tight, and we'll be right back on transacting value.

Why don't you make Jones a year? Karen knows to walk about an occasional guest host of transacting value of the podcast. Java down the road, I often think and talk to myself about life, family education, communication, whatever.

When I heard survival deadweighty, he was looking for our host for this show walkabout, I realized a change to my audience of steering wheel and dashboards would be nice.

Thanks to a line in my drive time and road where the insights to survival dead y t's passion for values based growth and character development, A YouTube shorts version of Walk About was born.

Try to keep in mind, that life is the learning experience.

Right? Everything would be okay in the end. So if it's not okay, then it's not the end. To learn a whole heap more road wisdom and a few different values each month, check out a walkabout. Searching survival dead y t on YouTube.

In my opinion, if anything, even as parents for that matter, if that's an easier way to relate this point, we have to be able to try to showcase as many human factor oriented experiences to our kids or to ourselves in order to grow as people.

And I think The DoD does a great job of doing that without putting people necessarily in harm's way to experience it for the first time.

And so Joe, a lot of the things that you've done and that you've described are irreplaceable, the amount of value and impact I think that they have I've worked in a leadership capacity now over 5 different latoons.

And each 1 of them obviously has differences in people and personalities. Right?

Little low mission sets and tasks, but the constant that I've found has been 100 percent with successful results based on directly 1 to 1, the amount of realistic simulated training we were able to get and provide during our workups prior to a deployment.

There's always gonna be the 1 off things, you know, bullets that complicate the matter.

But if you write that off as the outlier where the constant no matter the lemon is the human factor in the exposure prior to the deployment? A hundred percent, I think what you're doing is exponentially worthwhile.

So thank you for that. Well, you know, there's 2 measures I always look for in any job I've ever had. Number 1, it has to be interesting. And and doing this kind of testing is definitely interesting.

And number 2, it has to be important. As you said, it's very important. But if the first time a marine ever finds himself in a vehicle upside down underwater, is in the real world, and he hasn't done this since he's in a trainer.

There's likely gonna be a loss of life. You know? All of the other things we do, the truck driver trainers.

You know, you throw a high school grad into a 15 ton vehicle in the real world and he turns the corner too fast, people die. Mhmm. So it's a very important job, and and I take it very seriously.

It shows I mean, obviously, in your explanation, but in the quality of the training that I've personally received from some of the projects you've personally worked on, and and I'm sure to a degree overseen.

A hundred percent, man. I I can't state it enough in a lot of the experiences and scenarios I've actually found myself in.

I've been able to directly tie back the training I've received at you know, lagoon, for example, some of the simulators there and then out in SoCal.

So a hundred percent, I can't say enough good things about what you're doing, man. I hope you stick with it.

There's an old thing, and I'm you've heard it a a thousand times, you train the way you fight and you fight the way you train. Yeah. And that's very true. You get that muscle memory and that experience from the trainers.

And when you find yourself in real combat, it kicks in. Yeah. Well, hopefully. Yeah. Joe, for anybody that wants to find more information, not just DoD personnel. But in part, DoD personnel. They wanna find more information.

Maybe it's people looking for work. Maybe it's people looking to bid on this contract. Maybe it's people looking to just get more information about some of the training that their kids are taking part in after they graduate boot camp.

What are some options? How do people find out about this? YouTube videos? What do they go to? We've got a website. If you Google p m, that stands for program manager p m traces, TRASYS.

That stands for training systems. Few Google PM traces. I'm sure you'll find your way to our website. Think I sent you the link to it. It's got a catalog there of all the different products that we produce, different trainers.

As far as finding work, we're constantly hiring engineers. But the best way to find any government job really is to go to USA jobs and all of our jobs are listed there when they come out.

Perfect. As far as job finding the service, just go to see your local recruiter. I'm kinda partial to Navy. I always say my roommate from the Naval Academy went Marine Corps, and I tell them all the time.

I never once had to dig a hole to go to sleep. And the navy, you sleep on a mattress, you work in air conditioning, and you eat off a plate. So I'm pretty partial to advising young people to go navy.

And you don't go creeping down alleys kicking in and doors like the Marines. But I got a lot of respect for the Marines, but pretty partial to Navy. You know, I think it builds character in either regard.

And 1 of the warmest places I've ever slept was in a whole. 1 of the coldest places too, but that's sort of irrelevant. In fact, the cold hole, I don't even remember sleeping, so maybe that's also an irrelevant point.

Joe, I I appreciate the Tune, man. Again, for just taking some time out of your evening to sit and talk for a little bit, a lot in part about these topics that I really don't think get their due timing conversation.

Namely, how do you incorporate values into military training? And is there a relevance to ethical considerations when you're training infantryman?

Or what role do morals play? In training evolutions or ground forces in the DOD. And a lot of that stuff that we covered directly ties to it, man. Again, I just really appreciate opportunity, and I can't say it enough.

So thank you. Okay. Thank you, 2 porter. Yep. And thanks for your service. Yeah. Thank you. You too. And to everybody listening, thank you for listening to our core values of March of accomplishment, consistency, and endurance.

I'd also like to thank, obviously, PM, Traces, because without you guys, half of my training wouldn't have been as effective.

And, Joe, to your time and your insight and your experience, and obviously for your service as well. So thank you to our show partners Keystone Farmers Market, Buffin Clecker Farms and Buzz sprout.

Thank you for your distribution. Folks, if you're interested in joining our conversation or you wanna discover our other interviews, check out transacting value podcast dot com.

Follow along on social media where we continue to stream new interviews every Monday at 9AM Eastern Standard Time on all your favorite podcasting platforms as well.

You can find us there. So until next time, folks that was transacting value.